In this episode titled "Should the Giants Have Tagged Saquon Barkley or Xavier McKinney & Do We Want Darren Waller to Retire" the hosts delve into two pressing questions facing the team: the decision not to franchise or transition tag Saquon Barkley or Xavier McKinney, and the potential retirement of Darren Waller.
With the franchise and transition tag deadline passing, the Giants opted not to use either tag on Barkley or McKinney, allowing both players to enter free agency. Drew and Rob weigh the pros and cons of this decision, discussing the implications for the team's roster, salary cap flexibility, and long-term strategy. They analyze the impact of potentially losing key players like Barkley and McKinney, as well as the opportunities presented by freeing up cap space and exploring other options in free agency and the draft.
In addition to the roster decisions, the hosts turn their attention to Darren Waller, who is reportedly contemplating retirement. Drew and Rob evaluate Waller's potential return to the team, considering his contributions on the field, his mental readiness to continue playing, and his future outlook. They debate whether retaining Waller would be beneficial for the Giants and assess his remaining value and motivation as a player.
As the Giants navigate these pivotal offseason decisions, Drew and Rob provide their insights and opinions on the team's direction and the impact of key personnel moves. Tune in to "2 Giant Goofballs: A NY Giants Podcast" for more in-depth analysis, debates, and discussions about all things New York Giants football.
#nygiants #giants #nfl
All Episodes are shot LIVE with fan interactions on Youtube, Facebook, Twitter, & Twitch
Sponsor the show at: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/2giantgoofballs
Interested in starting a podcast. We recommend using buzzsprout: https://www.buzzsprout.com/?referrer_id=2012368
In this episode titled "Should the Giants Have Tagged Saquon Barkley or Xavier McKinney & Do We Want Darren Waller to Retire" the hosts delve into two pressing questions facing the team: the decision not to franchise or transition tag Saquon Barkley or Xavier McKinney, and the potential retirement of Darren Waller.
With the franchise and transition tag deadline passing, the Giants opted not to use either tag on Barkley or McKinney, allowing both players to enter free agency. Drew and Rob weigh the pros and cons of this decision, discussing the implications for the team's roster, salary cap flexibility, and long-term strategy. They analyze the impact of potentially losing key players like Barkley and McKinney, as well as the opportunities presented by freeing up cap space and exploring other options in free agency and the draft.
In addition to the roster decisions, the hosts turn their attention to Darren Waller, who is reportedly contemplating retirement. Drew and Rob evaluate Waller's potential return to the team, considering his contributions on the field, his mental readiness to continue playing, and his future outlook. They debate whether retaining Waller would be beneficial for the Giants and assess his remaining value and motivation as a player.
As the Giants navigate these pivotal offseason decisions, Drew and Rob provide their insights and opinions on the team's direction and the impact of key personnel moves. Tune in to "2 Giant Goofballs: A NY Giants Podcast" for more in-depth analysis, debates, and discussions about all things New York Giants football.
#nygiants #giants #nfl
All Episodes are shot LIVE with fan interactions on Youtube, Facebook, Twitter, & Twitch
Sponsor the show at: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/2giantgoofballs
Interested in starting a podcast. We recommend using buzzsprout: https://www.buzzsprout.com/?referrer_id=2012368
Welcome to Two Giant Goofballs, a New York Giants podcast. Are you a goofball that loves Giants football? If so, sit back and relax as we talk about the team that both excites and frustrates us so much. And now, here are your goofball hosts, Drew and Rob. Welcome fellow goofballs to two giant goofballs and your giants podcast. I am Drew joined as always by me. I'll arrive. We got a little bit of the giants news today for you. How are we doing? I almost forgot to start the Instagram live feed. Oh my gosh. That would have been terrible. Honestly, I totally forgot. I gotta be honest. Anybody who deals with doing live stream and trying to produce the show and everything while you're doing it, guys, Instagram, And not the people on Instagram. They're lovely. The people that follow us on Instagram, we love you. But Instagram themselves, the meta people and all those that decided to make Instagram the way it is, is a bunch of jerks. Because when I want a live feed on this program here, and for those that are curious, we use StreamYard to do our live feeds. I'll give our secrets away. It's not much of a secret, really. YouTube, Instagram, Facebook, Facebook groups, all that stuff I can do. Twitch, Twitter. Your LinkedIn. All that stuff. No problem. I hit one button and they all start up at once. For Instagram, I got to pop a code to the system here, then go onto the Instagram thing and hit start so it knows to take the feed from StreamYard onto Instagram to all these steps. And the rest part is part of the metaverse, which is affiliated with Facebook Live. So the technology is clearly there for them not to make me jump through hoops, so screw them. Yeah. I could post the story on our... Instagram, or Facebook, and it goes to one or the other. Why can't I do it for this? It makes no sense. I'm calling shenanigans. Anyway, I've got my rant here. I thought we came here to rant about it. We came here to rant about it. We've got a week and a half for St. Paddy's Day. Oh, yes. When we paint our river green here, it's a Tampa thing to do that. They actually do the green river here in the Hillsborough River. It runs through downtown Tampa. I'm sure the dolphins love that. Yeah, well, it's a river. I know you're not the most skilled in aquatic knowledge, but dolphins are saltwater creatures, whereas rivers are freshwater. Actually, it doesn't matter for dolphins because they're mammals and they don't have gills, which it would affect if they're in salt or freshwater. I know you're not a marine biologist as well, Drew. I'm going to look this up. I've never seen one in a river. Now, the gators might like it. I don't know. I'll just say it. I'm looking it up now because I've never heard this before. Okay, hold on. Hold on. Dolphins are used to either saltwater or brackish water, and they can handle small periods of time in freshwater. So small periods of time in freshwater. They don't live in freshwater. I didn't say they live there. I said I'm sure they enjoy it. Listen, who lives in a pineapple under the sea? SpongeBob SquarePants. Oh, great. We did this. Anyway, let's get to the topic at hand here, guys, because, you know, honestly, guys, I thought we'd get a little more draft coverage here for you guys. And I can't believe how much talk is still going on about the fact that we didn't tag Saquon. We didn't tag McKinney. And people are like, oh, my God, how could you guys not use your tag? You sat in your hands and did nothing. So I kind of want to go over those topics with you guys here. And the third thing we're going to go over today is Darren Waller. Because the will he, won't he, you know, as far as retiring is still going on apparently. I thought that was long done with. We're just going to let him sit around and figure out what he wants to do. But nope, he keeps on making comments in the news. So it keeps on popping up. So we're going to discuss Darren Waller. And do we want him to retire? Is it best for the Giants if he does? Or are we better off with him? It's going to be kind of a mixed answer. Go get the answer. I saw it. Look, you're going to give me the answer. Go get the answer. I wasn't going to go with the answer. I was going to say, you said he's talking to the news. This is the New York market. He could say something at a New York... restaurant zone over here and that becomes no no this is not like the start of the of the movie crazy rich asians here okay like this is I've never seen it a spectacular movie um but this is cases where he's talking to members in the media and I granted they could be calling him and they should be calling him that's their damn job but he easily can say I'm sorry I have no new update but I'll let you know when I have one done there's no news there's no story So, actually, we're going to get into some stuff here. Plus, I think there's something behind the scenes we don't know. In fact, I'm almost positive on that. Yeah, that works. Yeah, thanks to somebody else who I definitely trust to have the know on this stuff, saying it kind of flat out without saying it. While saying it, without saying it. so so so so oh yes oh yes oh yes so he's a kevin bacon with him then um so he's a kevin bacon with him then um so he's a kevin bacon with him then um let's get into let's get into let's get into we're gonna start off with xavier we're gonna start off with xavier we're gonna start off with xavier mckinney because it's the safe thing to mckinney because it's the safe thing to mckinney because it's the safe thing to start with right oh start with right oh start with right oh safety safety safety yes So, you know, obviously, I think of the two giants we're talking about here today. I got to be honest. I think most fans would prefer if we had to pick one that we keep Saquon Barkley. Let's start with that. We keep Xavier McKinney over Saquon Barkley. And that's because of the age difference, obviously, the position that he plays, and the fact that, quite frankly, Xavier McKinney hasn't had health issues at all that Saquon has had. I mean, minus the hand. Bioscope fingers. Yeah. I mean, minus the hand incident that last year. He's been pretty much healthy the last two years, whereas Saquon has always got at least a minor injury every year. Again, I'm not blaming the man when I say that he plays a more physical position where he takes on more hits. He was pretty healthy his rookie year and his junior .5 year? When he was coming back from injury, he was crap, basically. Let's be honest. That was not Saquon. I wasn't talking about last year. No, I'm saying after he came back from this season, he missed all but the first two games. He was not Saquon. He was not healthy fully yet. He was still getting back. What year are you talking about? What, year three? I wasn't talking about that year. I was talking about his freshman year. His rookie year. Yeah. Anyway, we're not talking Saquon. We're not talking Saquon right now. We're talking Xavier McKinney. We're talking Xavier McKinney here. We'll go back to Saquon a little bit here. So there's a lot to like with Xavier McKinney, obviously, on the field. The guy literally played every single down last year, had a great rating against the run, against the pass, especially against the pass. They're one of the best pass-defending safeties in the league there by far. Yeah, top five. The question to be then, why would you not want to keep somebody like that? And there's definitely some cons to keeping him. And it's not just the fact that Rob dances the cha-cha when he thinks about it. And the money dance, cha-cha. Cha-cha-cha, money, money, cha-cha-cha. But here's my biggest thing. And I know people are going to rip me on this. When we drafted Saquon... All I kept hearing about was the words positional and value nonstop. Positional value, positional value, positional value, positional value. What is one of the most underpaid positions in the NFL right now? Probably the running back. Besides the running back. On defense, let's be more specific. On defense, what is one of the most underpaid positions? It's safety. Safety. Because of positional value. And there are some giant fans like, oh, we got all the cap space. We should just give him the money he wants, pay the man to move on. Let's pay no one else ever and improve our team otherwise. We've had him on our team, guys, now for four years. We've been to the playoffs one of those four years. Now, I'm not putting it all on McKinney. Do not get me wrong. But what I'm saying is having McKinney is not an automatic success. He's not that great of a player. He turns the whole defense around and makes it great. He's definitely the guy you want to have on your team Especially when you are already a playoff team. And that's my whole point. We're not a playoff team. We have to build this team up. And if you spend $18, $19 million or something crazy on a safety, guys, guess what? You can't now build up through free agency the way you want to build up. That could have been a star receiver. That could have been two linemen to fix this offensive line. Yeah, and also, I mean, we had Love the year prior, and how much did he get paid when he left? $5 million a year, $6 million a year. Nothing crazy. Seattle didn't overpay him like crazy. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. So you could technically backfill the safety roster with good talent. I'm not saying McKinney talent, but close to it, for $10 million, $12 million, instead of paying McKinney $18 million. Not saying that I don't want McKinney on the team, but you're talking about positional value. You have to think about it. We could also take that $9 million, $8 million, $7 million in savings, and just like you said, put it towards the offensive line, improve the offensive line, and now our offense also looks better. An edge rusher? Ooh, ooh. Premium positions, positions that matter more than safety. Again, I hate to be a jerk about it. All positions are important. Everybody's special. Yeah. But I'm sorry. You tell me one team, one team in the last 30 years, and I'll give you one exception because there's only one I can think of off the top of my head, that built their defense around his safety. And succeeded. Success means, guys, again, we're Giants fans. We're not Eagles fans. Success is a ring. Yes. There's only one team I can think of on top of my head that built around a safety. And that's the Steelers with Troy Palomaro. That's a special guy. That's not McKinney. I'm sorry. No offense to McKinney. He's not Troy Palomaro. I mean... I mean, let's be real. That's not no disrespect to McKinney because Troy... I just want to be clear on that because I don't want people to go, he's anti-McKinney. That's what happens. You make a negative comment about anybody that's a giant automatically. You're negative McKinney. No, it's not negative McKinney. That's just... That's just realistic, guys. This is a Hall of Famer. McKinney has not shown himself to be a Hall of Famer. Not yet. Even the Ravens, you want to go back to the Ed Reed days. Ed Reed was not what that defense was built around. It was built around Ray Lewis. 100%. So what I'm just getting at, guys, is we keep hearing about we need to be smart with money. We need to have positional value. And I get it. We don't have a lot of great players. So we get attached to the few that are. Let's call it what it is. We're overly attached to some of the players we have because they're good and we don't have a lot of good ones. But... You're not wrong, especially when the guy we're talking about was a top five safety. So, like, you want to keep that because we've got to build a team. I get it. Yeah, I get it. But you also, once again, you don't build around that. Like, hmm. Now, here's what I'm just trying to say, though, in the whole thing. Again, my whole thing is not don't pay McKinney. I'm not trying to go that route. What I am saying is don't overpay McKinney. Correct. Because let's say he hits the open market. Let's say, hypothetically, the Giants say to him, and I think they really have had this conversation because, by all accounts, McKinney wants to come back. And they say to him, hey, listen, this is what we think you're worth. If you get a better offer and you want to give us a chance to match it, come on back. Now let's see what we can do. And I really think they're going that same route as they are with Saquon. They want to keep him. They don't want to overpay him. Because, guys, there's a lot of safeties that are popping up in free agency still. Almost every day we're reading about a new guy getting cut. That's where we're at. Yeah. And just remember last year, us tagging Barkley because he wanted, you know, whatever it was, 14, 16, 15 million, whatever people were putting out. We tagged them because we knew that's not the value. You don't go into a car dealership, especially like a Toyota, look at a Camry and go, I'll pay you $70,000 for it. There you are. You're back again. I was going down a rant about overpaying. Who out there goes, I want a Toyota Camry, walk into a Toyota dealership and say... Overpaying for your internet. Here's $100,000 for this Camry. And then walk out with a brand new Camry. Not saying these guys have Camrys. Here's more of my thing. Here's more of my thing. Let's say you go to auctions, okay? And sometimes you can bid ahead of time for things. and sometimes there's live bid auctions, okay? And sometimes they'll start off with the bids that are made ahead of time and go, hey, listen, this is our highest bid currently for this item. Does anybody else care to bid ahead? That's what the Giants are doing. They want Xavier McKinney to come back and they're going to give him a number that I think you're... which is not what he's looking for. But... not that crazy of a low number and try to save some of the money and go to him unless you get a better offer let's see because the other thing you got to consider is I mean let's let's let's look at what you got going on right now in free agency besides mckinney you got antoine moonfield's been franchise taxed and he's probably not leaving and going anywhere borrowing a country Justin Simmons, who's been a great safety for years and years, but he's still just 30 years old, guys. He's still got some years left on him there. He's available. Jordan Whitehead, Deshaun Elliott of the Dolphins, Darnell Savage of the Packers. Aloha Gilman of the Chargers. Chauncey Gardner-Johnson of the Alliance. Remember we talked about Jordan Poyer just got cut by the Bills there. He's available. Geno Stone, you know, as a guy I'm very high on. The Ravens. Cameron Curl from the Redskins. They call the Redskins still on the paper. I'm looking at here. It's the Commanders. No. Walter, shame on you. Julian, you know, seriously, I'm not even kidding with you. That's where I'm looking at this list because I'm trying to see who's available exactly. And they still have the old logo and everything. Wow, I'm kind of shocked by that. Julian Blackman of the Colts. Jordan Fuller of the Rams. Kyle Duggar of the Patriots. Tashaun Gibson of the Niners. Quandre Diggs of the Seahawks. Micah Hyde of the Bills. Brandon Jones of the Dolphins. I mean... This list goes on and on. This is a jam-packed list of guys that you can easily go, can we get a guy for half the money of what someone's going to potentially pay McKinney for and get three quarters to work from him? Most likely. Most likely. It's called supply and demand. There's a lot of supply. But it's also... When you're the top, nippity top, okay, and somebody wants the best, and they want to improve that position, someone's going to overpay. You're right. And that's where he's at. Yeah. Yeah. It's him and Justin Simmons, really, the two top safeties on this market. I just, to me, if he's willing to take an okay deal, not a crazy deal, an okay deal, a 13, 14, let's go to 15, whatever kind of million dollar thing. If he wants to start going close to that $20 million range, guys, it's time for bye-bye. Yeah. Because we can't afford to overpay. That's the old way. That's the get them in way. That's the get them in way. And we're smarter than that now. We've learned. Cap issues. Yeah, exactly. Listen, with the expansion and the big expansion of the cap, it allows us to afford to pay some of these guys a little more. And granted, their agents are going to ask, like, well, your cap increase was 7%. We should pay this guy 7% more. That's what it would have been, which that's the agent's job. But at the same time, it allows us to turn around and be like, hey, listen, we only want to pay this guy 12%. Turn around. Every now and then I'll offer you $14 million because I got an extra 5% in my cash base. Like you said, once you start getting into the higher teens... Yeah, what I'll say is once you start getting into the higher teens with McKinney, that's when you got to walk away. The 15 mils, they're probably going to go in there at 13.5 and say, hey, find a better deal, let us know. I think, honestly, I think if that scenario happens, the Giants will talk to other players, see where they're at, and they're going to make a ceiling. And if he wants to go over that ceiling, goodbye. Yeah. You know what? Again, I'm going to use this example because I'm big on this guy here. I think he's a good get for us potentially. But you want to play that game? Then we'll play that game. We'll go ahead and get Geno Stone from the Ravens for $8 million a year. Save $10 million. Go use that to get a pass rusher and improve the team overall while not taking that big of a drop at the safety position. Never wrong. It's a drop. But... It is a big drop, but once again, it's a big improvement on the team. I don't know how big a drop it is, man, honestly. And I think part of it also is... I think part of where my kind of nonchalantness about... I think part of my nonchalantness, so to speak, of whether or not we lose McKinney also comes down to the fact that when Joe Judge got fired, McKinney talked trash on the way out the door for him. This year, he publicly talked trash about Wake Martindale during the season. During the season. He didn't list them by name, but we all knew it was him. Keep your dirty laundry in the basket. Don't air it out. Don't let that go public. And that's a maturity issue. I'm sorry. That's a maturity issue. It is. He's also young and some guys mature. You know what? They're all young. They're all young. You don't see them all doing that. You don't. But not everyone is raised that way. I don't know him personally, obviously. I don't know his full personality here. But I look at that, and I look at that, and I throw in the ATV thing on top of that. And I say, there are some maturity issues here still with this guy. He's still learning to grow up a little bit. He's 25 years old. Again, to be honest, 25 years old, most of us were doing pretty stupid stuff. But most of us haven't been thrown into the limelight like this guy has his whole life. There's a difference between 25 in the NFL and being a guy that's a little bit under scrutiny your whole life, basically. Yeah. And being 25 and just being an idiot like I was. But there's also, I mean, it's not that easy to say, well, I was allowed to make mistakes because I was in the limelight. Look at Johnny Manziel. Look at Justin Bieber. Justin Bieber was in the limelight since he was what? 14? Into children in the media. You're saying there's a whole different topic, okay? You're just saying they're in the limelight of he has to know how to behave. Gary Coleman from, you know, shot himself and then, you know, freaking screech, you know, like, didn't he get in jail for a while for stabbing someone or something before he passed? I mean, like, you know, the older kid from the Brady Bunch was always kind of creepy looking. I mean, I'm just saying, like, it's a different thing. Hey, listen. Slater made himself very rough. Excuse me. A.C. Slater is a schmuck. He's a schmuck. He's a schmuck, okay? The man that married Allie Landry, the Doritos girl, cheated on her during the honeymoon. Went to the bar and was hitting other women at the bar. That's a schmuck. That's a schmuck. You want to play the game, just don't get married. I'm not hating the guy playing the game. You want to play the game, don't get married. I agree. Definitely agree with that. We're going way off topic. Yeah, super off topic. That is a shocker. Anyway, the final thing, was it the right move for us to go ahead and not tag Saquon? I'm sorry, not tag McKinney. I think it's right to not tag McKinney. I agree. I think you get a better deal by not doing this. I think the big thing for me is, if you had this is what I hope he takes from us, and this is our ceiling, and you've given him that this is what we hope he takes from us offer, let him go hit free agency. The only thing that will be ticked off is if the Giants didn't make any offer whatsoever to him. That's the only thing. Yes. That's what I was about to say. That's where it would go from there. So if you go in and, like we say, we offer him 13 mil in some kind of deal. Go to free agency. Because some of these good safeties are going for the low teens. Go out there and see what you can find. Or even give them 14 mil. He doesn't find anything better, or he might find 14-5. Boom. Even though our ceiling might be 16. You still saved money. I didn't. I got to say this. I did not anticipate us signing him to a deal before free agency. I wasn't sure if we'd give him a transition tag or something, but his agent is basically the agent for all of the top 10 deals that safety's ever signed. He is a safety-specific kind of agent. And he has gone to, I mean, obviously he's more into safeties, but he's known for representing some of the best safeties in the NFL. And he gets them mega deals. And McKinney said he wants to get paid. He hasn't hid from that. I want to get paid. And I can't blame the man. I want to get paid. What I do for a living, pay me. Pay me. My boss is listening. Pay me more. Yeah. Just saying, like, who doesn't want more money? Who doesn't? So... Again, I think it was the right move. Especially if it ended on a good note and the conversation was had to say, listen, before you sign anything, please give us the courtesy of a chance to match this for you. At least discuss it before you sign anything. And I think that conversation was had. I think Joe Shane wants him back, but he wants him back in a number that makes sense. And I think McKinney wants to be back, but his number that makes sense isn't going to match Joe Shane's number that makes sense, obviously. So he needs to find out his value. And that's what this is all about. Do the hokey pokey and you turn yourself around. And you shake it all about. Left foot in, left foot out. Oh, yes. Do the hokey pokey. Can't quite, my voice isn't quite there. Don't say yet. It's not quite there yet. Another day or two. Let's get into the Saquon talk here. Because Saquon Barkley, obviously we tagged him last year. There was talks about tagging him again, especially after the whole franchise tag thing went up. Let me ask you this question, Rob, and we haven't obviously discussed some of these questions. And to be honest, guys, we usually have a pretty strict notes pad here of everything we're going to go over, and we talked about this before the episode. I don't want to wing it, per se. I just want to speak straight-up opinions, and I want to be honest. This is more a free-flowing episode. Yeah. I want to hear what your thoughts are on this, if I have this question here. And obviously, we haven't planned this part of it, so nothing is planned for us. With this team as a whole, the way it is right now, If you had to guess how many years best case scenario before a championship caliber team, when would you say that is? Close to five. See, I would say two to three years. That's where I'm at. Maybe I'm more than an optimist. You probably are at this point. I was going to say... I see Chris Tony in the comments saying four. He's right there with me. Close to five. I would say three. It's still close. Kind of close to five. Now, what is the magical number for running backs when they just drop off the face of the earth, basically? It's 30. Saquon, guys, is 27. so so what's up this year's next year he so what's up this year's next year he so what's up this year's next year he turns he literally just turned it up turns he literally just turned it up turns he literally just turned it up last month last month last month okay okay okay so yeah he'll be 27 right especially so yeah he'll be 27 right especially so yeah he'll be 27 right especially because I could have sworn I was like because I could have sworn I was like because I could have sworn I was like he's 26 and he's wearing 26. he's 26 and he's wearing 26. So one of my biggest concerns is, listen, guys, again, I love getting the playoffs. We did that in 22. That was really nice, especially for us to win one like that. I was at the Giants bar over in Tampa enjoying it and everything. But when it boils down to it, again, we're Giants fans. We're here for rings. And does getting Saquon on a long-term deal help us get a ring? And I don't think it does. Because if you look at his age and where this team is at, by time we're good. Because again, guys, you got to be realistic here. We're not one or two players away. We're a couple of years away. By time we're ready to go. If everything falls out right, the world aligns and the moon's lining up and the stars are out in the sky or whatever, Saquon's done, guys. He's got a couple more years and that's it. I'm not trying to be negative. I'm trying to be realistic, guys. So, do I want to keep Saquon? Personally, I would love Saquon to be a Giant for life. Because I think he has done very well as far as how he's been a leader of this team, a face of this team during some not-so-great years. But I also... I'm not going to overpay for that. I know the Giants, from everything we're hearing, want to pay him like $8 million a year. He wants to get paid like $12, $13 million a year. This is the same as McKinney thing. They're going to let him hit the open market. And they have the same conversation with him. You get a better offer, you come to us, please. And we'll tell you if we get matched or not. But honestly, I'm with most of the fans out there. If I got to pick keeping one of these two players, I'm keeping the 24-year-old that's probably got another 10 years to play over the running back who's got a couple years. Let's be honest, already declining. How many times did we see him hit a hole last year? and somebody would catch him from behind, or he wouldn't quite slip through the hole. You would have seen younger Saquon do before the injuries, before the years of hits and abuse. Yeah, you're not wrong for saying that. My biggest thing is he started off the year doing that. He had that ankle thing, and he just never came back from it. The team just never came back from him not being there. And how much is it? Was he fully healthy when he came back? Was it a lingering high ankle sprain? You can say that. That's fine. But we said that prior to the 2022 season. He looked almost as good as he did as his freshman year. Like, it's still a decline. I know what you're going to say, but he was still a top five front back in this league. He was, and he still can be. I don't doubt that part at all. But what I'm getting at is we're building up for a future championship. I understand what you're saying. I was getting there. But if you could get this guy back at a good deal, not overpay, keep him. I understand what you're going to say. You want to clear some cap space, possibly, maybe, is where you're going to go at. It's not even necessarily the cap space. It's do I want to build a team, a championship caliber team, around a 27-year-old running back? I feel like to a certain degree, he's a crutch. Because as long as he's on the field, we're going to build around him. You know, crutches help you improve in areas where the crutch is not. I wouldn't know. I have animantium bones. That's amazing, Wolverine. I'm just saying, like, you get him at a good deal, right? You get him at that 12 mil. And, like, that's a good cap. Let's be honest. Like, someone will pay him. What? I don't think that's a good deal. Sony will pay him over that. But if we would have franchise-tagged him this year, and we've talked about this through the year, last year, yeah, we said we would do it. You get him at that kind of deal, even though the tag's higher, you give him incentives. You even get him like $11,500 and give him incentives. Whatever the case may be. If you give him $8 million a year and give him incentives, yes, I'm okay with that. That's not happening. But I'm just saying... Then you start focusing on the draft. You start focusing on other positions around him. People will respect Barkley still being there, and you help develop the other young talent around him. All the free agents go here. You guys gave a 27-year-old running back on the downswing of his career at that point, a $12 million deal. I'm telling you right now, there's not going to be. I'm just saying that's the high. They're probably going to offer him like 10-5. With incentives. Again. Let's be real. They're not going to lower his rate. I got to run down this list. I've got to run down this list as well for you because this is where I'm getting at. This is why I don't think it's going to happen. If he was the only one, sure. But when you're coupling him in the same free agency with Josh Jacobs, Tony Pollard, Derrick Henry, Austin Eckler, DeAndre Swift, Devin Singletary, Zach Moss, Jake Elliott again, Cordell Patterson, Deontay Foreman, Gus Edwards, J.K. Dobbins. I mean... And don't get me wrong, I understand that not all of these guys, none of them, have the same abilities that Saquon has. Even King Henry, who has different abilities, is what I mean by that. He's not the same quick guy. He's the smash you in your face, right down the middle kind of guy. But there's just so many options. I mean, I didn't even mention some of the guys that are still out there, like Kareem Hunt, A.J. Dillon, people like that as well, like, you know, Yeah, there's also a lot of guys that aren't on his talent level. I'm not saying overpay for this guy. But I'm saying, King Henry, you think he's going to go for less than a franchise tag somewhere? He might go for 10. Let me ask you this. How much do you think... I'm sorry. Yeah. Okay. You're breaking. I was about to say the same about you. Break it up again. I can't hear it in here. That's what I said about you. I said I couldn't hear you. There you are. There you are. We lost you. There we go. Stupid technology. I will say this. I could hear you. Devin Singletary. How much do you think he hits in the open market? I didn't even know what he made last year, so I couldn't even tell you. That's what I'm getting at, dude. He's not a guy who's going to get paid like crazy. Zach Moss. Okay, so... You got 2.75. You're trying to compare Zach Moss, but you're comparing Zach Moss to Barkley in that book. Hold on. Hear me out. Hear me out. Let me finish my thought. Let me finish my thought. So you got Zach Moss, okay? He was the backup, obviously, in Indy last year. Went ahead and had a great season when he was called on. He had a cap number of $1.1 million. So let's say you pay each of them $3 million. You get $6 million. I would rather pay those two guys together $6 million and have them be kind of platooning the backfield at that point than having just Saquon for $12 million. You got $6 million saved. You got two guys who you can split at that point. So if one gets injured, you still got a guy. So what I was saying before, let's break it up. You've paid Barkley 10-5 guarantee with incentives. You're still going to take those two for $4 million. You're not going to take the top five running back in the league. Here's my biggest problem with it, as I told you. And I don't think this is not a... I hear what you're saying. I hear what you're saying. As long as he's here, as long as he's here, this offense is built around him. And what I'm saying is, is it in the best interest overall, long-term, for this team? Not in the now. In the now, it's not. But in the long-term, especially if you want to get a rookie quarterback. I think it is. Are we better off letting him go, building this team around whoever this quarterback gives me to get? Maybe the receiver we get. Who knows? Because who knows how this will work. Get a Calvin Ridley. Draft another one. Have a loaded wide receiver room. Have a good offensive line. and fix this offense and not have it be an old-fashioned 1980s offense where we're running the ball 30 times a game. I understand it, and I get what you're saying. As long as Barkley's on this team, I think that's what we're going to look at. We talk about bridge quarterbacks all the time. Do we not? Signing a bridge quarterback is not a bad thing. You pay a little money to get it going through. So hear me out before – Barkley is one of the most... I know where you're already going. We've talked about this before. Barkley is one of the most respected players when he's in that backfield. If you could get him over two guys that are not respected nearly like he is in the backfield and save a couple million dollars, I don't think it's worth it. Barkley brings leadership to this team. Barkley brings a lot of down quality with the team as well, which is what a leader should do. But with the respect, the defense, the opposing defense is going to have to give Barkley, allow your rookie quarterback, if you have to put them in right away, that rookie wide receiver to start getting a little bit more go without the defense having to go right after them. Barkley's in that backfield. He is the main person the defense is looking at. It allows your young talent that you just drafted and just are trying to develop to develop into the players you want for the future. To me, it is worth paying him that money. So would you agree or disagree the defense is respecting the talent, not the name? Both. They're respecting both. What I'm getting at is if I'm a defensive coordinator, I don't care if your name is Saquon Barkley or your name is Gary McBeardy. I don't care. I'm just saying this as an example. All I care about is what is this team good at and what do I have to try to stop? And the whole... The point I'm just trying to make is if this team is going to run the ball, they're going to try to stop the run, regardless if it's Saquon Barkley back there or if it's Zach Moss back there or a rookie back there that's doing very well for the season. They don't care who it is. They just want to know, who do I have to stop? Yeah, so I hear what you're saying, but in that past season when Barkley was down, they did not respect that running game at all. Yes, because there was no running game. There was no running game. So, once again, you got Barkley and that talent back there. I hear what you're saying against someone else. But you keep Barkley. That's what I'm saying. Sign multiple people. Do what everybody else in the NFL does. Have a stable of running backs. And then when one gets hurt or one wants too much money, bye-bye and replace them. That's what you do. You sign him to a one-two-year deal. I don't think it's a terrible thing. I don't think he'll take a one-two-year deal. I mean, if that's the case, then you say bye-bye. That's my scenario is you pay him that one, two-year deal, and that's it. You're not going to pay him until he's 35 years old. That's esplanade. But if you get him next year on a two-year deal, or we'll say we'll give him a three-year deal, two years guaranteed. Yeah, like I said, I'm not opposed to keeping the man. Mike, it's just a concern I have is that if we keep him, this team still revolves around him, and it's hard to move forward when you're staying still. Sometimes you have to take a step back, take three steps forward. Sometimes you have to know when to hold them, know when to fold them, know when to walk away, and know when to run. I'm just saying, I don't know. Honestly, I see pros and cons of keeping him. And like I said, it's nothing on him as a person. He's a freaking awesome giant long term. He's a guy that I wish would retire a giant because of the kind of person he is. But my main thing is right now is the focus of this team. The 2024 season here is whoever this rookie quarterback is. That's the focus of this team. Nothing else matters. If he looks good and this team doesn't win and get to the playoffs, we're good. We're building towards the future. Let's say hypothetically he flops, he looks horrible, and somehow we waddle into the playoffs, then that's still not a good season because you haven't built towards anything. You just happen to luck out in a couple games and win. Yeah. This whole season is going to be about this quarterback, whoever this guy is, whether it's Penix, Joe J. McCarthy, J. Daniels falls in our lap somehow. I don't know. But you also don't want to throw him into the fire if you want them to develop. And as much development they can get, you have to... If you want that quarterback... Slow down his development. Look at KJ. McCarthy, he had a pretty solid run back in Michigan. Yeah, but we're trying to... We just finished saying on our preview episode, we have him last today, shameless plug, that he got held back. Because of the offense they were in. So do you want to continue holding him back? Or do you want to see what you got? I mean, you obviously want to see what you got. But you also... If you put him into a similar style of offense that he was just in, he's probably going to develop faster in the NFL and take off. Because he's used to the formality. And then you rip the band-aid off and you see what... see what you got. Grant, you get Barkley. You get Barkley. You sign him to a two-year deal. Well, a three-year deal, two years guaranteed, $20 million guaranteed. It's not the end of the world. It's not an L bill. $8 million one year, $12 million the fall, and it'll say $15 million that we never pay him. You put McCarthy in there for two years. You put McCarthy in there for two years. Well, not two years, but with Barkley. He gets used to the offense, the players around him, the team. He develops his niche in this NFL. And then he progresses to the next level without Barkley. I think that's a progression better than throwing him into... It's interesting. In both of our scenarios, he's a crutch. Barkley is. That's what I said from the get-go. 20 minutes later, we're still on the same topic. That's what I said from the start. So, in the end, though, again, I have kind of similar thoughts to McKinney. I think this is the right move. I still think, in the end, something just tells me we're going to bring both these guys back. Something just tells me that both these guys will be back. They'll be Giants. You know, I just, it's my gut feeling. I could be wrong. Not that I have any inside source or anything like that telling me that. It's just something tells me they both want to be Giants. and watching people in those scenarios that mirror at the last minute is like, no, we can't lose these guys. They like us. No one likes us. I think if we keep them and it's a similar salary. Have you tried throwing a medium Coke into the deal? That's it. Sign here. Here's a medium Coke. That's the ticket. But yeah, again, kind of similar thoughts. Let's let the guy hit the open market. Make sure you don't overpay for him. And if somebody wants to overpay for him, let them. I hope they're both the best regardless if they stay as giants or if they move on either way. Unless... Rumors are true that are here today about Barkley's people and the Eagles have a mutual interest. I got to say this, too. If you look at the Vegas numbers and where Barkley's going to land, you know what the number one and two spots are? I have no idea. Dallas and Philly. I think that's Aspen. You shouldn't have been on that. Because if the guy that has such an ego around him and what his image looks like to go to the opposing team, he becomes a bad boy. I think to me, Barkley cares about his image too much to do that at the long run. But his people are smart enough to know if you want to rile the fans, get the fans on the side, the last thing fans want to see is Saquon Barkley. in an eagle's jersey or a cowboy's jersey I think this is a media move they're doing on purpose yes 100 I think you just took the words right out of my mouth must have been why you were kissing me pervert listen what's better than a 1200 mile kiss Oh, my. Anyway. So let's get into our third topic here. Before we do that, though, let's pay the bills. Let's go over some of the comments real quick, and then we'll get into the topic of do we want Darren Waller to retire and what we think is going to happen to him here in this whole saga. Enjoying the show? Looking for more goofball action? Consider a membership at buymeacoffee.com slash two giant goofballs. Memberships start at just $5 and give you additional goofball access. One-time support payments also available starting at just $3. Buymeacoffee.com slash two giant goofballs. Oh, yes. And I'm back. And then as I'm back, we also have the cartoon version of me and Rob Spot here. He signed into my account on the StreamYard here. He'll be back in just one second. Let's hear through some of the comments. Connor said, what did I miss? Just the most important thing ever said in the show, Connor. I'll never be said again, too. He says, that's true. You got to build team, correct? Not put your shitload of money and not have a good record. Exactly. Connor says, wish I was 25 to 27 again. The Giants had an open trial like they did in that Mark Wahlberg movie. I'd make the team. One, because my team. Two, big blue money. Yeah, I definitely wouldn't have. I was not very good at football. I admit that, really. I was, you know, I joke around always saying that I was left bench. I started off my freshman year as an offensive lineman, defensive end because the high school football coaches thought I would grow into my frame. Yeah, that definitely was not going to happen. So I went, I'm probably the only guy ever in football history to be made from an offensive tackle to a wide receiver the next year. And I had great hands, just never had the speed. Never had the speed. Ran a good route even too. Never had the speed. It was never going to happen. And Jackie says, please explain that more. We're not going to. We're not going to. Christopher Tony says, hey, guys, what did I miss? We need to revamp inside staff and management. There's definitely some inside stuff that needs to get revamped. That's for sure. He says four. And I was talking about how many years before that championship caliber. He said, had that happened last year, gave him his deal, we wouldn't be going through this. If he had assigned the offer he was given last year, I got to be honest. I blame this, and I'm not blaming it on Saquon. I'm blaming it on his people. I don't know what they thought they were going to get in free agency, you know, being offered. I think it was like last time I heard it was like $13 million a year. I mean, $13 million a year. That's in a running back market. That's a lot of money, guys. What else does King Henry get more than $10 million a year? I don't think he will. I really don't. I think he's actually going to take a pay cut, and he's going to go to a team that is on the hunt for a ring potentially there. I think that's the goal for King Henry is try to get that elusive ring before his career is up because he knows he's probably got one or two more years, and that's it. He's not stupid. He's a smart guy. He knows what's going on right now with his body. He's 30 years old. He's on the wrong side of 30. And he's got a lot of miles on those tires. Where do you think he goes? Ravens? I think the Ravens. I've heard a lot with him. I don't know if that's the team he considers a championship team. I'll give you an odd one here if I was him. Chargers? No. I'm going to give you a different one. If I was him, and you already made a ton of money in your career, let's be honest, he's made a good amount of money. I'm calling up the Chiefs, and I'm saying, I want to be your platoon back with you guys. How much is it? How much would you give me? You're not wrong. I was going to say the Chiefs, but... Him and Pacheco together? Are you kidding me? Oh, I mean us, because that's, you know, speed and grind. I was going to say that, but they're not going to pay him probably nearly what he wants. No, and that's what I'm saying. He's got to be willing to not take the money to get it. Yeah. Is a ring that important to him? It might be. Very well, maybe. I don't know. I don't know how he spends his money either, so... Chris also says Singletary will get five and a half a year. I don't know if he gets that much. I really don't. He said, sure, I understand that. Three years, 20. I'm not sure which ones you're talking about that one, Chris, I think. That's on Barkley. Yeah, it's Barkley. He says, I certainly hope they both be back. Yeah, again, I really do. Connor says, F Coke, give me Dr. Pepper. This is a family. I want it. What does the doctor order? I like the doctor. It's a little one. I like that one time that I fell out of Boo Radley's tree and Dr. Pepper stitched me up. Yeah. Let's see. He says, Chris says, medium Coke with a pretzel. Barclays on the dotted line. We're only too much in the pretzel as well. The tactic to get to the Giants to let them go so they can further criticize the Giants. I mean, again, I don't think Saquon will ever say a bad word about the Giants publicly. I think right now, if McKinney leaves the door and goes to the team, you're going to hear him bash the you-know-what out of the Giants. It's going to be like a documentary tell-all in his years with the Giants. That's not going to be a pretty day. Just based on what he's been with Joe Judge left and when Wink, we already knew, was on his way out and they were fighting. Yeah. If that trend continues, that's not going to be good for the Giants. I mean, we all bashed Joe Judge on his way out. Not so much Wink, but... The difference is, and I say this with you and I obviously even doing the show, we're not professionals. No. There's a difference. We can say we want to give opinions. This is a fan show. We're fans. We don't work at ESPN or Fox Sports or any of those kind of stuff. Whatever TV shows are still around, I don't even know. In a professional career, you should never really bash any job that you leave that's in the same industry. Agreed. Unless you're a 25-year-old kid who can't keep his mouth shut. Wow. That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm saying. And then Chris also says, wow, the Chiefs wild choice. Yeah, we're here for wild cards here. We're the goofballs after all. Come on. I don't think it's a wild choice because that's actually one of the first things I thought of. It's pretty solid that you're going to go to the AFC championship. Like I said, if you want to win a ring, that's where you go. It's a really good choice to go there. Especially with the way that offensive line play this year. Well, like I said, the offense was the issue. The offense was the issue. So sometimes you beef up, have a double-headed, you know, monster at running back and let Holmes do his thing and he hopefully gives a little time extra for somebody to open up as a receiver because you're giving him that much more time because you're worried about the run. And it'll confuse so many of the defenses because they'll be setting up in the I formation having Pacheco and Henry in the backfields. I said I'm on each side. I wouldn't do eye formation. I would say I just throw it out. All right. Yeah. Confusion all over the defense because I know the homes could also run to go for it. But Pacheco in the slot and around. Oh, yeah. King Henry leading the way as a blogger. Yeah. So I'm saying you can have fun with that. All right. Let's get the topic. Number three, guys. And that's Darren Waller, the unicorn himself. The unicorn himself, the guy who was touted as being the greatest giant since OBJ. And we talked to him. Listen, I want to bash this guy's season too much. We talked about this guy at Nauseam, and we talked about the end of the season and the state of the team here. If you really want to hear our thoughts on Darren Waller, go back to the state of the team tight end edition that we did a couple weeks ago. I'll give you the short of it. Jared Waller couldn't stay healthy. Jared Waller didn't stay in the field very long, even though he was healthy. But if you look at his efficiency, his efficiency as far as how many yards he did compared to how many snaps he took, how many receptions he got based on how many snaps he took, touchdowns, all that kind of stuff, he was just as efficient a player as he's ever been. Yeah. He just wasn't on the field. And I'm pretty sure you did your statistics the way you did. Oh, I did my statistics. And they were, like, dead on. It was one of his top three seasons, I think. Maybe fourth. It's really, like. It was right up there. He was really close. If he had done 85% of the snaps, guys, he would have been a pro bowler with, like, I think it was 1,100 yards. Yeah. So. And I forgot how they touch us, but that doesn't matter. I forget the exact stats, so I may be wrong on that. Don't quote me on that. I don't have that in front of me. I was close to 1,100, and it was definitely a pro bowler. If you're that curious, go back to that episode. It was a good episode. If you're tied in doing 1,100 yards, you definitely... But here's my whole thing, and I've said this all throughout the whole process. People look at Darren Waller, and they look at the cap number. The cap number, when you're looking at, do I want to keep a player or not, is not what you're looking at, guys. That's not where you look. His cap number is 14.083. And if you cut him, you don't get that back, guys. You save $6.7 million. So it doesn't matter if you think he's worth $14 million because he's not. I don't think anybody would make that argument whatsoever. Dude, they're freaking idiots. I'm sorry. Again, benefit if we're just goofballs. We can say what we want. They're morons. They're idiots. They're buffoons. They should be nowhere near an NFL team, and they must be related to Dave Gettleman. Just saying. But is he worth 6.7? And he is. Yes. He's worth $6.7 million. It doesn't matter about the other 7.3 or whatever the hell the difference is at that point. That doesn't matter. You're paying him that either way, guys. You're stuck. So, you know, and the sad thing is we're in this position because we reworked his contract last year after we traded for him. Which we said we're going to do because our cap space issues last year. Exactly. We did exactly. Yeah. Okay. So... And then we... If... You know what it is? Our problem is we blew out expectations when Gable and Shane got here. If we sucked... We never would have made the trade. Yeah. When we started this podcast, we would have a lot more... cap space, let's be honest. We would have made a trade. We knew where we were at. If we won five games the first year, wow, that's terrible. We're not a playoff team. But instead, we go to the playoffs. We win a playoff game. And everyone goes, let's try to make that happen again. And we make this awesome trade. for this great tight end who can't stay healthy. And now we're in this conversation to talk about what do we do with him? Because we had a terrible year and he didn't stay healthy. Just like he's done his whole career. What's his career? Here's one thing I would be kind of intrigued by. is if hypothetically he retires and we can get him to retire post june 1st it's the same as a post june 1st cap cut we can split the difference we would save 11.6 million dollars now keep in mind we're still kicking the can down the road because the rest of the cap it goes next year So we'd have like $2.5 million next year, or $3 million, something like that, that would be a cap hit for him the following year. But he's giving us an option, saves us some money. Yeah, I mean, if you talk about retirement this year, and he plays the way he did last year, which he didn't play bad when he was healthy. No, no. Once again, the best ability is availability, because... Well, let's listen to this because this is kind of telling as well. This is the quote that Dan Duggan at The Athletic got from Waller recently said, I'm undecided at the moment. It's really the idea of signing up for the journey. It's tough. It's long. It requires a lot. And if you're not fully bought into every single thing of the process, it's going to be tough. I feel like at the end of the day, you're doing guys a disservice if you're not all in all the way in. And you know what? That to me, I'm sorry. Sounds like somebody who's not sure if he wants to play anymore. And if you're not sure, you're already retired in my mind. Yes. No, uh, His wife, is she still in Vegas playing out there? She is. Now, I don't know if that's what's going on, but I'll tell you this, that did cross my mind because listening to the talking giants of the day, shameless plug for them because if you guys don't listen to them, they're very good as well. I'm pretty sure the Liberty ladies are... Looking for some spots. I don't even know which position his wife plays. But Justin Penick said during that show that he heard through sources that there was something going on with Waller all season long. I don't know if it's him being away from his wife. I don't know if there's something going on with his addiction issues. I don't want to even guess something like that. Let's leave that out. I'm just saying, I don't know what's going on in his personal life. But it sounds like Justin does and he doesn't want to give it up, which is fine. He doesn't have to, even though, again, he's a podcaster, same as us. If you don't want to give out your information, you don't have to because sometimes you're told things you're not supposed to say out loud. And that happens. That happens, guys. I have heard behind the scenes stories and talking to different people that I don't give you guys because I've been asked not to give it. And that's how you build a relationship and trust the people. You don't give it if they don't want you giving it or else they just don't tell you anything ever again. So as much as I like to share with you guys everything we hear, we talk to people that are associated with the Giants and, you know, played for NFL in general. There's stories you hear that you just don't give because you're asked not to do it. So I respect Justin for not giving it because trust me right now, if he has information like I think he has, it'd be top stories if he dropped right now. It would help his career. Seriously, kudos to him being stand-up and not doing that. That's legit because there's a lot of schmucks in this industry that would give it out in a heartbeat. Whatever he has going on, I am in no doubt sure that something legit is going on in his life because just the way that Justin said it tells you something legit is going on. You're going to have to listen to that podcast now. yeah I was during one of my uh one of my cleansings I was doing this week here trying to drain my sinuses and it's like pay a podcast netty pot time yeah it was a fun week but yet overall though If he's got something going on in his life, dude, there's plenty of things way more important than football. I know none of us want to say it, but it's the truth. There's plenty of things way more important than football. We enjoy it. It's a great escape for all of us, but there's plenty of more important things. And if his heart's not in it, you don't want him out there. Plus, there's other things you could sit there and say as well, like, We talked about Saquon. Saquon's going to be gone before we become a championship team. Darren Waller is easily in that same category, especially if he's already contemplating retirement now. Then you also go, are we holding back development of other tight ends by playing Waller like we are? You know, we look at this year, and Daniel Bellinger took a step back this year, guys. Was part of that the lack of snaps? I don't know. It's definitely a lack of snaps. It's also because you have Waller on the field, and he's with Waller. He's not – It could be a lack of snacks. Lack of snacks. But, I mean, also, like, when he's on the field, he's on the field with Waller, like, the majority of the – the passes are going to be to Waller and not to Ballinger, and he's going to be asked to block. So, I mean, Grant is still a tight end's job, especially the way this offensive line played this past year. So he did a lot of the other roles. Yeah, pretty much. He was trying to help out the burger flipper. Oh, yes. But like I said, just a food for thought. Is it a possibility that having Waller has stunted the development of Daniel Bellinger, who is young enough to be around? I don't know. So I'm saying I think it's a possibility. It's been one year. I wouldn't go there yet. But what I'm saying is just based on the first two years. His rookie year is better than his sophomore year. Better blocking, better receiver, better overall. It was on the field a whole lot more. So, like I said, I just wonder if having Waller stunts Bellinger, and I wonder if he's already considering retiring, is it worth keeping him? Knowing that he's not going to be there when we go ahead and finish this whole thing up and get into a championship mode. Yeah, I don't think so. I think, right, Waller... It's a flip of a coin if you keep him one more year or not. But I don't think it affects Belger. I think when we win our next Super Bowl ring, Belger will probably be our tight end. I think... He might not be the start. I don't think he is. I really don't. I think he'll be on the roster potentially, but I don't think he will be. I think they're going to look to, if Waller's gone, they look to go ahead and get somebody else there. But I'll say this. Again, I don't know what's going on in Waller's life. I don't pretend to. I don't think it has anything to do with the rap album and all that stuff people are ragging on him about. I think they're ragging on him mostly because of Tony. He's not Tony. He's not an idiot. He's not somebody who has no heart. Let's be very frank. For him to walk away from the kind of money he's going to make, that tells you something legit is going on. Yeah. There's a lot of... There's a lot... Yeah, that's... Guys, his base salary next year is $2.5 million. Or is that $10.5 million? Yeah, that's what I was going to say. How many of you guys can walk away from $10.5 million? How many of you guys are going to make $10.5 million in your life? I made it last week. Oh, good for you. Hey, go to Barcelona. Game stop. Hey, that should have gone way before that. Oh, shit. What I'm just getting at is, though, is that If he's walking away from that kind of money, it's legit going on. So I just hope whatever's going on. Darren Waller, if you're listening, hope all the best for you, man. I kind of wish I knew what was going on. I'm nosy. I'm nosy. I admit it, really. I'm nosy. Hopefully in his sobriety, he was very good into jail with his money. And yeah. I just hope in general, whatever's going on in his life, that whatever is the best outcome for him is what happens. And I'm sure once he's got it figured out, what he's going to do is let the Giants know. Honestly, I think the Giants already know where he's leaning towards. I really do. I think they just don't want to let it out before free agency and stuff like that hits. It's an advantage by having it be somewhat of a secret. Because I'm telling you right now, if Darren Waller does retire, you know, all of a sudden becomes like targets of ours. Receiving tight ends. To go ahead and pair with Bellinger. Obviously not Waller, but guys like Mike Gusecki and people like that. So it's smart to keep it up close. So I just, like I said, I think that... I think that in the end, he's got to do what's right for him. And if his mind's not there because of whatever's going on, he can't be there. It's not good for him. It's not good for the team. So at that point, it's time to ride off into the sunset. Enjoy what was a very good career. His peak was kind of short-lived. Still a higher peak than most people ever reached in that business. And best of luck to him and his wife and everything. And that's it. Time to move on. Yeah. So I guess to answer the question, do I want him to retire? I don't want him to retire. I think the team's better off with him this year. But I don't want him to not retire if his mind's not in it. Correct. Yes. With that talent, you want that talent and especially because everyone appreciated that guy. Every interview, everyone talked about how great of a man, of a player, and a person he was. I'll tell you what, and this is going to sound a little messed up potentially, but I'm going to say it anyway. I don't care. You know me. If you want to talk to some of the best and most appreciative people in your life you'll ever talk to, talk to somebody who's a recovering act. And what I mean by that is they've seen the bottom, they climbed their way out of it, and that takes something. That takes something, guys. If anybody doesn't understand, maybe they haven't dealt with some of the stuff that unfortunately I haven't seen in my life, and I know Rob has as well, getting out of addiction is not easy. It takes a personality to do that. It takes a strong-willed person to do that. And when you get out of something like that, you have an appreciation for the littlest things in life. Because you thought you might not see those things again. Yeah. You had a time where you were numb to those things because all that mattered was whatever you were dealing with drug-wise. It's just weird. It's a weird thing that you'll notice in life. People that are recovered addicts, and I always say recovering because you're always in recovery, but I say recovered at a certain point. At a certain point, you've been clean for years and years and years. I always say recovered at that point. More of a finalized thing. Like, you're good now. Yeah. It doesn't mean let go and just don't be cautious, but you know what I mean? Like, it's an achievement. He's been clean for a year, supposedly. I don't know. Again, I don't know personally. Yeah. I don't know personally, so I don't know what he's saying. Everybody I've ever met has been a recovered addict like that. It's been years clean. The nicest damn people I've ever met in my life. I appreciate every little thing in life. A different perspective, guys. Anyway, sorry as I ran through a little bit. Yeah. Do you, my friend? It's all good. But you're 100% right. Sally, we're the generation that had a lot of issues with a lot of different things. And I've seen things go sour and things go right with people with addiction. And you're 100% right. As soon as you get clean, you love God and you love every little cranny that is made around and you appreciate what is going on. So if there's problems in his marriage, there's problems with whatever this and that, whatever it is, and he says, I can't be away. I need to be by my family. Kudos to him, because I don't want him on the field thinking that he is too far away from me. Something that he shouldn't be. At the end of the day, I don't want to distract it. I want his mental health to be clean and do what he needs to do for his own personal life. I wish him well. He gave us a good year. It could have been a great year if he stayed healthy, but I want him to stay healthy in the long run in his life. Mentally, physically, everything. Yep. All right. Let's get through some of the last comments here. Then we got a little bit of NFL news to go over, guys, that we're going to call it a night. Chris says, I just want the Giants to get their shit together. Maybe Texans, Ravens, or Bills. Let them go unhealthy, just efficient, talking about Waller. He says, most productive TD until he got hurt. And that he was, actually. I think he was in a lot of categories until he got hurt in that Jets game. He said, yes, 6.7 restructured. Is Joe Shane efficient as a GM? We've actually had that discussion. I'm still not... I think he is better... than, you know, better than Gettemann was, that's for sure. I'm not 100% sold on him. I've definitely had some questions there. He says, tough decision there, guys. And if you're not committed, just retire and go in peace. And that's a game. Connor says, if that money is guaranteed, I guarantee I will have that in the bank before you know it's gone. Exactly. I mean, it's hard to walk away with that kind of money. Chris says, didn't another giant come and sign for one day to retire as a giant? Why not Saquon? No, 100%. You're talking about Corey Webster. I think it was the giant thing that did it this year. Prince of Mookamora did it not too long ago as well. It's not an uncommon thing, but you still don't want him to go to a team like the Eagles or the Cowboys, and then you feel like... He goes out to Oakland. He goes out to, yeah. Oakland? I... Vegas. Where they move to Vegas as well? I'm just saying, you go somewhere that has nothing to do with the different conference. It's whatever. If he wants to go play for the Jets, at least he doesn't have to move, but it's also not a divisional rivalry. Oh, I don't know how Giants fans would take that. I don't think they want anything to do with it. They're good, yeah, exactly. Connor says, dude, did you hear that our Chiefs Dolphins fans who were at that very cold game might need amputations? If that's true, I bet there will be lawsuits. No, you can't sue for stupidity. I guarantee those guys did not wear the correct stuff. Chugging beers. Yeah. You can't fix stupid. But you can hope that the amputations mean that we're not a further generation of them. I don't know what got amputated. Yeah. Connor said, I'm addicted to pussy, but I go a couple weeks without it. Tough it out. Yeah, I somehow don't think that's by choice. Chris says, Connor, that's crazy if true about fans. Amputations Yeah. It's crazy. It's true about being an addict. Connor says, how much they pay him for one day to retire a giant? Sign me up. I don't know how that works, to be honest with you guys. I've never looked into that. I'll bet you a dollar. Yeah. There's probably a rule written in the NFLPA, like that kind of stuff, to happen without hurting the team. Because if it hurt the team and they had to pay him the veteran minimum, they wouldn't do it, obviously. Not going to give up a million dollars to their cap space. No team would do that. Otherwise, what I start doing is my competing teams, here, take $2 million. Go tell the Bengals you want your number retired and you want to retire as a Bengals. Yeah. I'll pay you $2 million. They'll pay you $1 million. It'll be $3 million. It's great. Imagine it be insanity. Listen, the NFL coaches do all kinds of crazy stuff to get on edge. Ask Bill Belichick. They would do that in a freaking heartbeat, guys, in an absolute heartbeat. All right, guys, let's go into the NFL news, and then we're going to blow this popsicle stand here because it is getting time to head on out here soon. So no really big Giants news here, guys, but we do got a little bit of news around the league. Oh, yeah, the exploding football. Let's get into the NFL news. This is kind of actually somewhat Giant-related. Seahawks and former Giants defensive lineman Leonard Williams are said to be working towards a new long-term deal together. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think negotiations typically with Leonard Williams are very easygoing. No. How many years are we held hostage by him? Oh, my gosh. Every year. Yeah. I'd attack him the first time. Finally got a deal done the second time. Yeah. The negotiations with Leonard Williams are not easy. I think the Seahawks fans are about to learn this. The Rams are a bunch of jerks, and I hate them. They took one of the guys that I had listed as our top – who would be our top free agent target here in offensive lineman guard Kevin Dotson. They signed him to a three-year, $48 million contract. You know what's funny is if you remember – This is the exact amount per year that I see the Giants would sign him for or should sign him for. So at least, listen, I was right on something. It's wrong who would give him the money, not the money he would get. So I'll take it, I guess. He got the money. Yeah. I mean, you knew he was going to get paid, but that's something I thought the Giants would have, like, oh my God, if you get the best offensive lineman available this offseason, that'd be like a huge smash hit for the Giants. But unfortunately, obviously not going to happen. The Eagles, they're also jerks, but it has nothing to do with the news going on. The Eagles are said to be working on a new deal with defensive end Brandon Graham. So he should be back for his 37th season with the team. The Bears and Jalen Johnson, who was recently franchise tagged there, they've gotten a new long-term deal done with their stud corner now. Four years, $76 million. So that's $19 million per year. That sets the market now, guys, for the top corner. $19 million. $19 million. La la mula. Saints also extended Tyron Matthew in what was a move basically just to avoid cutting him. So it wasn't that they gave him a ton of money in this kind of deal. They basically made the move, added on some years, and paid him less this year. That way they can just avoid getting rid of him entirely because all their cap issues they're having. Kicking the can down the road. When Tyron Matthews asked for his thoughts on it, he said, Honey Badger don't care. Honey Badger don't give a shit. Pretty much. He didn't say that. He didn't say that. That might have been a Liberty quote there. That was from the old YouTube videos. That YouTube video is still up 30 years ago. Oh, it's fantastic. It's still up there. Honey Badger don't give a shit. No one knows what we're talking about. Build a group. Randall rates the Honey Badger. Fantastic. I had a shirt that used to say Honey Badger don't care. Yeah, straight up don't give a shit. Gross, nasty. That video is hilarious. It's right up there with true facts about anglerfish. Oh, I forgot about that one. he's like he's like here the shrimp is lured with the hoof by a pashmina shawl uh and the guy that sounds just like will ferrell I swear it might even be will ferrell is that close to the voice I mean it's that long ago it could have been he was yeah that was an old video we're old we're like look at this youtube video 30 years ago guys you'll love it when I was first invented this is this is before you were born um all right so we got a couple of comments here real quick here but apparently it looks like chris and connor become buddies here in the chat here look at that um chris says believe it or not that that butt nut will call him there he is tony is my little cousin blood damn shame shake my damn head uh And then he says, 37 LOL. It's a 37 K C or one day. Sign me up because I'm on the next plane to giant strive. Listen, if it's 37 K, I'll still take it. Want to pay me $37,000. I'll take it. For one day to show up in the suit and sign something and talk to some media real quick. Connor says, I remember when I was 37, worried about 40. Now I'm in my 50s. You young whippersnappers. Live it up. It goes quick. Trust me. One foot in the grave. Don't have regrets. Live it up. Yeah, no regrets, guys. No regrets. No regrets. All right, guys. We're going to call it a night here. So we'll be back again next week. Remember, next week. Oh, yes. Next week starts it all. It's time for the free agent frenzy, guys. The free agent frenzy. Because next week we have the legal tampering period starts with the NFL. So that's the fun thing. It starts noon on Monday. So Monday we're on 9 o'clock. It's going to be all talking about who signed up. Like I said, same as it was last year, we'll give you guys not just who the Giants signed. Obviously that will be our main talking part. But we will give it over to everybody that signed overall. Just like last year, if something happens on a Tuesday or Friday, we'll make extra episodes if we have to. We have no life. Speak for yourself. Nobody loves us. The only thing that makes life worth living. I already told my wife. I said, fair warning. This is that week. There's two weeks that I don't know when I'm going to be coming on and what my availability will be. That's always the week of the draft and the week of free agency. You just never know what's going to happen what day. I expect this to rock. Yeah, so expect to see a lot of us next week here potentially, or at least a shift in the schedule. Maybe we'll do Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday instead of Monday, Wednesday, Thursday. Or maybe we just do something different on Thursday. Or maybe we have to come on every single day next week. Who knows? It depends on how busy Joe Shane is. But I'm going to call it right now. I'm going to call it right now. We're going to get a decent name guard. And a decent name, pass rusher, within the first couple of days of this free agency. That's the two targets. You are right. That's the two targets the Giants have by all accounts, guys. So keep an eye out for that. And if I'm right, we'll replay this so I can go, ha-ha! Ha-ha! That was right. Ha-ha! All right, guys. I appreciate you guys listening. And as always, we are live on Facebook, Twitter, which, by the way, we are blowing up on Twitter all of a sudden here, guys. All you guys, the Twitter chat, appreciate you guys. I wish we could see any live chats you have. Unfortunately, I can't see that. um just to give you guys a heads up if you want to get involved in the chat portion just got to go to youtube facebook or uh twitch um you know most people I think prefer to go to youtube but whatever at that point just give you a heads up if you guys want to get involved the chat if you want to sit in twitter listen that's fine as well guys we're we're cool with it glad to have you hope you guys hit that like and subscribe and everything in the meantime there too as well while you're there Of course, we're on, like I said, so again, YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, Twitch, Instagram, which unfortunately cut us off, by the way. I was complaining about Instagram before. Instagram maxes out an hour. They cut you off. I'm this close to just not even streaming us on Instagram. Tell Instagram to go piss off. And of course, as always, Rob's favorite. Drew's LinkedIn page. Oh, yes, my LinkedIn profile. And, of course, as always, we are available the next morning on all of the major audio podcast platforms as well. So we're on Apple, Spotify, iHeartRadio, Amazon, Google Podcasts, all the big ones there. Even some that I still can't remember the name of because there's like 30 of them that we're on. Dozer, Schmozer, Cozer, whatever. Dasher and Dancer and Prancer and Vixen. They save Christmas. Yeah. Goofballs with your nose so bright. Won't you guide this team? Because our GMs aren't usually good. Mayor family, if you want to hire us. Listen, I'm always open for that. I've always said, and I never thought I'd reach it. I didn't even try it in that business. My dream job always, even as a kid, was to be the GM of the Giants. Hmm. Which, in reality, is the worst job to actually have because in a couple years you're going to get fired. You want to make one of those guys like Kevin Abrams kind of behind the scenes that the family loves and never wants to get rid of? Yeah. That's the real job. That's the real job, guys. He'll never be gone. All respect to Kevin Abrams. I mean, it's a cap genius. I just feel bad for all the idiots he had to deal with all these years. One day he'll get the job. Maybe he'll get the job one day. I'm kind of shocked he hasn't still, to be honest. All right. Anyway. We'll see you guys again on Monday. Appreciate you guys as always. Hopefully we'll have some good news and some players at the Giants have gone ahead and signed. Again, hopefully someone to protect the quarterback. Maybe Kevin Ridley. Should we hope for Kevin Ridley? That's the big name I really want. I'm torn. I like the idea, but I also like the talent. I think Wanda's going to be our dude. Here's my thing. Here's my thing. If you were to tell me the draft that you can guarantee me Malik Neighbors, Roma Dunze, or Marvin Harrison Jr., then I'm good. But there's so many moving parts to this draft that if you get a chance and Calvin Ridley's interested, you got to take that shot, dude. I know. I know. That's what I'm saying. I'm torn. I'm torn. Because if I knew I'm getting one of those three, I don't care if I get them or not. But if I don't know what's going on and I might be moving back, moving up, who knows what the hell to get a quarterback, you got to give somebody a throw to him. A legit top flight guy. And that's the only guy really available. And I think he's not going to be the high-flying payment kind of guy that all these guys are because for some reason he goes under the radar a little bit. Yeah, a little bit. I mean, probably last year was probably his best year. I mean, I know it's a gamble, but... That's best year, but yeah. Who said that? Who said that? Who said that? All right, guys. Again, we'll see you guys on Monday. Appreciate you guys listening. And as always, we know you got plenty of options where to go to your Giants news from. We appreciate you guys choosing these two goofballs. We question your decision, but we still appreciate it either way. So we'll see you guys again Monday. Have a great, safe weekend. And think happy thoughts about free agency, guys. All right. Appreciate you guys. As always, Giant fans. Thanks for listening to Two Giant Goofballs, a New York Giants podcast. We appreciate your support. Thanks so much.