State of the Team: Linebackers & Special Teams

Welcome to another episode of "State of the Team" on our podcast, where we dive deep into the New York Giants' linebacker corps and special teams units.

First up, let's analyze the linebackers. Bobby Okereke leads the charge with an impressive 149 tackles, 2 interceptions, 2.5 sacks, and a solid 78.2 PFF grade. Micah McFadden also contributes significantly with 101 tackles and a PFF grade of 65.6. However, Isaiah Simmons, while showing flashes of brilliance, has seen limited action, registering just 50 tackles and a PFF grade of 68.9 in only 33% of defensive snaps. Unfortunately, Jarrad Davis was sidelined for the entire season due to injury.

Looking ahead, the Giants plan to retain the same linebacker group, with the exception of Cam Brown and Carter Coughlin, who primarily contribute on special teams.

Shifting our focus to special teams, Graham Gano has been reliable, converting 11 out of 17 field goals and all extra points with an impressive 82.1% touchback rate. Randy Bullock and Mason Crosby also contribute to the kicking game, albeit with varying degrees of success.

Jamie Gillan handles punting duties, averaging 46 yards per punt with a touchback rate of 4.2% and 36.8% of punts landing inside the 20-yard line. Gillan's performance has improved from the previous season, with a higher touchback rate and an additional 2.5 yards in net punting average.

On the return game front, Gunner Olszewski stands out with 23 punt returns for 273 yards, averaging 11.9 yards per return and scoring a touchdown with a longest return of 94 yards. Parris Campbell and Eric Gray contribute to kickoff returns, providing solid field position for the Giants.

Looking ahead, the Giants plan to maintain the same special teams crew, potentially exploring options for a different returner to enhance the team's effectiveness in the return game.

Join us next time on "State of the Team" as we continue to dissect the New York Giants' roster and prepare for the upcoming season.

#nygiant #giants #nfl

Transcript

Welcome to Two Giant Goofballs, a New York Giants podcast. Are you a goofball that loves Giants football? If so, sit back and relax as we talk about the team that both excites and frustrates us so much. And now, here are your goofball hosts, Drew and Rob. Welcome, fellow goofballs, the two giant goofballs in your Giants podcast. I am Drew, joined as always by... And me, Rav. Let's get the show on the road. Oh, yes. We got two groups. It's a special show. It's a special show because of that. We got two groups. We're going to talk about a one. Because quite frankly, this is two groups that we're not going to change a lot on. So we thought, let's combine them. And let's just talk about these groups here real quick. Because they're both important parts. They're kind of ones that people don't like to talk about as much for whatever reason sometimes. But they're important. They're not flashy. They're not flashy. They're very important. But that's the linebackers and the special teams. And guys, you can't succeed without a good special team. That's a third of your team. Whether people want to admit it that way or not, it really is. And teams that have a good special team squad, It's a nice advantage. It's a nice advantage. No one talks about it enough here. So we're going to talk about it a little here today. But before we do that, let's get into the linebackers, the LBs, the unsung heroes. Because this is the first time I feel like we had a decent linebacker group since the days of Antonio Pierce here at that point. It's been that long, guys. Of course, we're talking middle linebackers. For those who may be a little confused, obviously, we already had our edge rusher show there. So we kind of did this edge outside linebacker throne category. This is now the middle linebackers, the off-ball linebackers, as they call them nowadays. The goofballs. Not the goofballs. That's us. We can't have a show about us. That'd be the most boring show ever. What'd you do? I worked. It would have been amazing to talk about how great we are. Oh, yeah. Zero subscribers. Speaking of which, if you haven't already, if you're a big Giants fan, do me a favor and see the first episode. Hit the like, hit the subscribe, hit the follow and share to somebody else there as well. Let's get into that linebacker group, though. So first up, we have the man, the myth, the legend himself, the man who, for some reason, it took several months for half the giant content creators out there to remember how to say his name correctly. Bobby Okereke. Is that okra-cake? Okra-cake? Yeah, okra-cakeness. I said, I'll admit freely that we talk about players that I might be interested in or players that we're talking about potentially getting. Sometimes, listen, if I got the time to look it up to verify I'm right in the pronunciation, sometimes I'll admit I slack a little. But when it comes to a guy that's a giant, once he's a giant, I'm going to know how to say the goddamn name. Yeah. Yeah. Get a bunch of tape. Make sure you know. I was a little shocked. Even some of the bigger guys in the middle, in the beginning, were saying his name wrong. I was a little shocked by that. But anyway, Bobby Okereke, probably the biggest and best offseason addition we had via free agency last year. 149 tackles, guys. That's a tackling beast, tackle machine right there. uh two interceptions two and a half sacks a 78.2 pff grade and I don't think we can say enough nice things about him I don't think we can don't have a single he only had like he had less than 100 last year too didn't he what uh tackles Oh, you mean the prior year? No, no. He took over Shaq Leonard's job over in the Colts last year. So he's been over 100 the last couple of years. But this is really the first time that he's gotten the national stage because he played for the Colts prior to that. I mean, again, I don't want to be mean about Indianapolis and what it is, but it's not nearly as big a city as New York is, obviously. He had 151 last year, 132 the year before that. So... He's consistently doing about 140, 145 tackles for the last three years. And there's not a lot of guys that can do that. He's one of them. So hopefully he's a giant for a long time. And a very smart guy, too. People don't often talk about that enough here. It's not just the Ivy League college background and all that. If you listen to the man talk, the man understands the game at a level that some will never. Yeah, he has an intense football IQ. Yes. Like I said, very glad we got him. Next up, a guy that was a little bit of a shocker this year. Especially for you. I was like on the fence, but you were like not on this guy. No, you know what? I thought he'd be an okay backup. Maybe that's who he develops into, but he didn't really impress us last year. This year, though, Micah McFadden seemed to be a guy that was just there when you needed him. You know what I mean? He didn't have this amazing stellar season like Bobby Okereke did, where you go, oh, my God, this guy's like a borderline pro bowler kind of guy. But he was just a consistent guy in that background. 101 tackles of the season, one interception. Low PFF rate. I was kind of shocked by that. 65.6 was his PFF rate, so... I'm kind of curious maybe to go do a tape study specifically of him and see what they saw they didn't like there because I honestly expected a much better grade than what he got. I was expecting low to mid 70s. He definitely had his name spoken about a lot. Yeah, I mean, I remember like the Niners game is a classic example. It's like every single time a good play happened, there he was. So, you know, I don't know what happened there, but for whatever reason, they didn't like him as much at PFF. So, like I said, kind of curious to go back and kind of watch some of the games specifically to see what he does and how he does. Uh, next up the Swiss army knife himself, the guy who was like heralded coming out of Clemson as like a freak of nature for the football field that nobody knew what to do with in Arizona. So that traded it to him to us. So, you know, Isaiah Simmons, 50 tackles on the season, one sack, one interception, which is for a TD, played on just 33% of the defensive snaps on the year. So I got to give that as part of the context there because, again, 33% of the snaps, 50 tackles. That's a pretty high percentage. Think about even if he did 75%, 80% like a starter, he'd probably be 125%, 130% tackle kind of guy at that point based on that number there. I was going to say, you just said, well, Matt, 33% of snaps times that by three, that's 150 tackles. Yeah, well, he wouldn't be 100% of the snaps necessarily like Okereke was. I'm just saying. I know, I know. 68.9 PFF grade there. So actually a little better than McFadden there. And he's a Swiss Army knife. That's what he is. I don't think this guy will ever be a star in this league like some people thought coming out. But I think he's a guy who fills a lot of different holes. Like he can play edge. He can play linebacker. He can play safety. You know, it was even Friday and Saturday night, even on a Tuesday. But it was even kind of discussion, like, where do we put him in our conversations here? We do the state of the team groups here because it's like, where do you put him? He plays so many roles. And I put him as linebacker because of the fact that he's edge, he's linebacker, he's safety. I figured linebackers kind of the middle of that group there at that point there. Yeah. Yeah. So that's where that's where we're putting them here. But I mean, in the end, you got a guy that plays a lot of places and that comes in handy, especially when you get a team like ours who typically has issues for whatever reason with injuries. you know it's thanks to have a guy you can put an edge you can put a linebacker you put it safety you can put him in the slot even if you need to be at that point like you know there's a lot of places you can put this guy and versatility is a big thing nowadays in the nfl there so um now he's one guy we get to talk about there because of the fact that he's a free agent that we got him with one year left on that contract there at that point there so I'm hoping they bring him back, but I'm hoping that they bring him back at a number that's reasonable. Obviously, this is not a guy you consider tagging or anything like that, but it's a guy that you still would like to have because he's a good piece to have on that defense. I don't know what the market's going to be for this guy, though, to be very frank with you. You know, look how excited Giants fans were. We traded for him as if we just got all pro players. Some people not going to name particular names, but there were some people like, oh, my God, we got as we got. We're going to solve the issues that Arizona couldn't as if our coaching staff did a great job that anybody else. But there could be a team or two out there that still thinks they can do amazing things with this guy. I don't think that's possible. I think he is what he is. He's a piece that comes off the bench, fits many roles, fills a lot of spots for you, and doesn't do any of them spectacular, but doesn't do any of them horrible. And that's what he is. There's nothing wrong with that. But if some team thinks they can fix him, make him into a star of their defense, they might overpay for him. And I don't want to overpay. I'm done doing that stuff. We're not overpaying anymore, guys. Joe Shane's going to have a number in his head, and he's going to stick to it. He's not going to get him in this up, okay? Please. Hopefully it's a low number. I'm thinking a couple million dollars and that's it. I really am. I don't think he's going to be a guy that you go crazy on. We'll see there. Next up, Jared Davis. We expected big things. A lot of people expected him to be the second linebacker with Okereke. Of course, he gets hurt in preseason. That ends that one there. That was it. yeah um so yeah uh again another guy who's a free agent though as well didn't play a snap I would think that you can get this guy at a better minimum deal and if that's the case bring him back to camp we'll let him be part of the battle there and let's see we got because he's a former first round pick the giants brought him in because they liked him they brought him back because they liked him so if you like him that much bring him back again unless it was wink If he was just waking, everybody else in the room was like, I don't know about this guy. He gave him two shots, man. But I'm just saying, you've got to have that as part of the equation because there is a new defensive coordinator. Who knows who was the person yelling that they wanted Jared Davis at that point? We don't know. And, of course, we've got two other guys we've got to talk about here because we're going to leave Darren Beavers alone in this conversation because he spent all year in the practice squad, didn't appear on the regular. He'll pop up in camp and probably go right back to the practice squad. That's what he is. unless he saves his beaver yes let's get all those but I have no hopes I had too many high hopes for him last year that I'm gonna go into this season with no hopes yeah then it could be pleasantly surprised when he great comes in as a backup I love being pleasantly surprised and not unpleasant surprised the unpleasant surprise this is not so fun And the two guys left there are Cam Brown and Carter Coughlin that we're going to kind of bunch them together because they're going to kind of segue into our next discussion here we're going to have because let's be honest, we list these guys as linebackers, but they're not. They have no defensive ability whatsoever. These guys are purely special teamers. That's what they are. And they do that very well. Don't get me wrong. At the point now that four years in, both those guys being New York Giants, it's time to move on and get somebody who also will help on the special teams. But maybe, crazy thought here, help on defense or offense as well. That is crazy talk. I know. It's insane. Who is talking loco? I don't know what I was thinking here. So silly. So, yeah, like I said, they're both free agents. They're rookie contracts are up. Both of them have gone on social media and said goodbye to the Giants. So they've already been told that means they're not coming back, even though the Giants haven't said official word on that. You don't do that unless Joe Shane or Brian D or somebody's had that conversation with you. So, you know, I appreciate the last four years, but it's done. Yeah. What do you guys expect to make? I don't think it's that because I think they'll come in for the veteran minimum. I don't think the Giants want them. I think they want players who provide more versatility. Yeah. You know, again, four years in these guys, it's like, you know, keep in mind they were drafted. These are guys that were drafted by Joe Judge in that regime. In the very beginning, the first year. So they've been two years with Judge now and two years with Dave. Remember, Judge just loved to go ahead and draft guys for special teams abilities. It's a problem when you hire a special team coordinator. He focused on special teams. We had so many players. Didn't we have like two or three fullbacks at one point two years ago? I mean... That's where we're at, folks. That's where we're at. So, yeah. Let's move on from those two and call it a day. Otherwise, though, to me, bring back the same group. I don't think we ought to change a damn thing. I'm not looking at any free agents. I'm not looking at any draft guys. Unless the right person just happened to come along at the right time draft-wise. You know what? I can't pass up this guy. I'll never say don't use a draft pick on a single position. But I will say it's less likely you should, and this is definitely into that category. Like I said, it's got to be the right guy, the right position at the right time, basically. Listen, if you get a stud that falls into your lap, you take advantage of it. Oh, yeah, and that's what I'm saying. If you got a guy with a third-round grade, and it's round six, and here he is still available, and you feel like you've already filled the holes that you really were going into the draft to fill, go for it. Drill that hole. Worst comes to worst, he's a special teamer who does actually provide something at defense. Crazy thought. I know. This is why we're branded as the Radical Giants podcast. But yeah, like I said, otherwise, let's bring that same group back. Let's just ride it back again because there's enough positions and groups to have to fix that I'm not looking to go ahead and fix this one. Yeah, this one's... Is it... Yes. Is it the most elite in the league? No, but they play pretty goddamn football. Pretty good football right there. I'll tell you this. If you look up the numbers, and I didn't look up this ahead of time, so I'm not going to have it in front of me here, guys, but if you look up the numbers, I guarantee you the number of teams that have both off-ball linebackers with over 100 tackles, it's probably not a high number. So, yeah, that's where we're at. So I'll take it. I'll take it, and we'll keep it going, and we'll move on here. So let's get into the special teams here because they're just so special. So special. So special. So before we do that, though, let's pay the bills. Enjoying the show? Looking for more goofball action? Consider a membership at buymeacoffee.com slash two giant goofballs. Memberships start at just $5 and give you additional goofball access. One-time support payments also available starting at just $3. Buymeacoffee.com slash two giant goofballs. Oh, yeah. All right. Let's get into the special teams. So special. Special. Special. Special. Special. To be honest, we're not going to do much on here, guys. So... But here's what we got. We got Graham Cano, obviously, starting off the season as our kicker. Did not have a good year, but let's be very frank. He was injured, and for some reason, they kept trotting him out there. I don't get why. I do not understand the mentality of the Giants with this. He's injured. He's got one leg. Venom kick. He's injured. We're probably not going to win into the end of the postseason with this guy. Let's keep on throwing him out there, but whatever. 11 of 17 field goals, 8 of 8 extra points, which, first off, let's just focus on that for a second here. 8 of 8 on special teams, guys. 8 is on extra points. Yeah. Now, you may go, oh, wow, that's a really good percentage. And no, you're not wrong on that part here. But here's what I really want to stress. He played in 9 games. 8 extra points. Yeah, so we're at, what, 0.8 touchdowns per game? Yeah, we're at less than one touchdown per game. Exactly. So, yeah, this is why we say we're focusing on these two together and we're not going to fix much. It's because there's enough to fix, folks. We're good. Let's not make issues whether or not. Now, obviously, at that point, he was hurt. Randy Bullock came in five of six. But the field goals, 10 of 10 extra points. The big drop off was the touchbacks on the kickoff. So Graham, you know, is 82.1. We lost him. Randy Bullock was at 65% touchbacks. So it's one of the things you don't really talk about very often. But listen, when you can just guarantee they're going to start at the 25, that's a mess. 25 is not an ideal starting position if you're an offense there. Of course, Randy Bullock got injured. Mason Crosby came around. Five of seven field goals. Six of seven extra points. Only a 12.5% touchback percentage. I think it's fair to say that Mason Crosby is probably dumb. He just completed his third decade as a You know, we say that, but I think he's your age. I really do. So I hope you feel old now. Yeah, he's 39 years old. He's 39. Hey, listen. He's got some age in me, right? Not much. Not much. Granted, I woke up Sunday morning because I slept on the couch and I didn't want to walk for half the day, but that's besides the point. I'm also two years older than him. Just saying. We're calling ourselves old in the process. Now, when all these injuries happen, we got to talk about the Scottish Hammer, who, of course, also kicked a field goal, was 101 for field goals there. 40-yard kick he made there. So that's pretty impressive for somebody who doesn't actually practice doing field goals. 40-yard is not a chip shop by any means there. Had one kickoff in that game also for 51 yards. It would be kind of interesting if you can get a kicker that also punts and just combine them and just have one guy do both. Saving a roster spot. Like having a 54-man roster. it's a rugby spot hey uh but obviously his main thing was the puntering so 9 95 punts on the year which first off we go oh my god on that 95 punts guys that's a lot of punts that's that's ridiculous amount of punts that I'm pretty sure that led the league that's five and five and a half uh punts per game. That means every quarter we're punching the ball away once, plus another one for good measure randomly in the game. Well, yeah, when you go three and out. Not two, because it's five and a half. That's insanity. Your punter should not be punting that often. Again, this is why we keep stressing. At least you got a lot of depth of what he did last year. Yeah. Now on his punts, he had 46 yard per punt average. He had 4.2 touchback percentage. That's pretty damn good. 36% within the 20 yard lines. So I want to really quick because I know we've talked about this guy on this show a few times. And I've heard some people still talk trash about this guy. Everybody who watches this show and has watched this show for a while knows that I was one of the biggest trash talkers of the Scottish Hammer, who had a, let's be very frank, had a really shitty 22. Took forever to punt the ball, had it blocked a couple of times, kept it just dumping it in the end zone, kick after kick after kick. Did not have a good 22. Look at the difference here. We talked about a 4.2% touchback percentage. Last year, I guess last year it was 22%. Let's say that. 23%, 4.2% touchback percentage. And 22% is 12.2%, guys. That's a freaking massive difference. And he added another two and a half net yards per punt, meaning he was able to get the ball higher. And the end result of how much the difference in the field got shrunk after the punt, he gained two and a half yards. That's nothing to scoff at. How many times does a touchdown end on the one or two yard line, guys? That's what we're talking about sometimes. Yeah. I mean, also, how many times have we talked about in 2022, like, dude, you just got to corner the kick. You got to drop it in the corner. And it's weird. He didn't drop it in the corner necessarily, but it's like he got close to it. You know, he'd at least put it towards the corner, towards the corner. He wouldn't, like, cough and kick it, but he'd get it towards the corner, and he definitely would kick it higher. Yeah, and he took a little extra oomph off it and just went a little higher. A little oomph. Yeah, oomph. So, congrats, Jamie. Get on with a good season there. Casey Kreider is our long snapper, obviously. Let me put it this way. This is the first time you've heard his name in about a year. That's all you have to know. Exactly. That means he's doing his job. You only hear about long snappers when they suck. Good going. He's a free agent again. Keep signing up to one-year contracts. Let's re-sign him. Let's keep it going there. Punt return, a kickoff return. Let's get to the return game, guys, because that's where we had our issues in special teams here. Let's get one of the punt returns here because that's been the big woof. Woof. So Gunnar Olszewski, we got halfway through the year there because of all the issues we had with punt returns. Ended up 23 returns, 273 yards. That's 11.9 average there. That's good. That's good, guys. I have no issues with this guy. Had a touchdown, too. I can't remember the last time we got a punt return touchdown as well on a 94-yard return. So, yeah. Before we got him, Here was the monstrosity of the group we had. Eric Gray. This is why we got him. Yeah, Eric Gray, seven returns for 28 yards, four-yard average. His longest was 14 yards, guys, which was half of his total. That means the rest of them was six of them for 14 yards. Yeah, 2.2 average or whatever. Yeah, that's not good, guys. And this was something that I think Shane kind of admitted he made the mistake on. When he had his press conference, he kind of said, you know, we got him for his punt return abilities, basically, because other people we wanted were already taken. This is why you don't reach. You can always get somebody to do just as bad. Yeah. You could have hired me. I would have come in there and done just as bad as Eric Gray. Listen, I'll say it. I've said it before. I'll say it again. Eric Gray to me was a horrible pick, was a waste of a pick. Even on draft night, Rob and I were like, what the hell was this? I'm pretty sure I was like, who the hell is this? Yeah, we did. We were like, we're trying to put the lipstick on this pig big time, but there was no lipstick to put on. It was like a natural shade. We could still tell it was a pig. But yeah, so obviously he lost the job. and Gunnar Olszewski showed us how it was done. We did have a couple other guys in between. Sterling Shepard had three for 10 yards, including a five-yard return. Bobby McCain had one for zero yards, and so did Nick McCloud as well. Obviously, that means those two fair caught theirs. Gunnar Olszewski, that's the only guy in that group that I'm happy with on the return side there. He is also a free agent. Listen, I'm not opposed to bringing him back. at all in any way shape or form but I'll say this I don't think it has to be him it doesn't you know but if you get him on a cheap deal and he got the space because here's the problem he's much like Carter Coughlin and Cam Brown he provides nothing on offense absolutely nothing so that's your issue if you can put the spot together for him then go for it. Why not? But if you can't, you know, I mean, obviously we're recording this on Monday. We're about to do our off-season game plan, so I can say it here because this will hit on Wednesday. We didn't keep him in our off-season game plan. We drafted someone to replace him, actually, that also will play offense. But I don't mind if they bring him in, especially if they bring him in on a no-guaranteed-money deal. And fight let him fight it out with somebody at that point for the position and if he wins he wins he does he doesn't you know like that's not the biggest thing in the world he's a good returner so but he only returns punts he's not even kickoffs and he doesn't play offense it's hard to keep a guy around like that in this day and age when you need so many players you can only keep so many so yeah Like I said, bring him in, see what happens. Kickoff return, Paris Campbell, 8 for 191 yards. That's a 23.9-yard average. That's the only thing he did good this year. I was going to say, it's probably more yards than he had in his action receiving. Yeah, that's it, guys. That was the end of positive talk about Paris Campbell because that's it. Eric Gray, there he is again. Four yards. I feel like four yards. Four returns for 58 yards. 14.5 yard average. 24 to 14. That's basically the difference we're looking at here. If you want to call it 15, it'd be nice. That's a huge difference, guys. And then Lawrence Cager also had one return for zero yards. Now, I don't remember Lawrence Cager's return, and I wonder if it was an offside kick or something because of the fact that he obviously doesn't go back there to return, but he would be on a hands team, and it was for no return. So I got to imagine it was an offside kick. I can't imagine putting Lawrence Cager back there. No one puts a tight end back there to kick off a turn. Just doesn't happen. You put running backs and wide receivers. But yeah, that's something we got to address, guys. Paris Campbell is going to be gone. Eric Gray is crap. And Lawrence Cager may or may not be here. He's somebody that I could have or not have and not care less. I hate to break it that way. It's a person, I know. Just being honest, it's a business decision here. He's not a horrible player. He's no one I'm going to miss, though. Where he's at. He's a bridge piece, I guess. He's like a bridge for Steam. Steam. Yeah, Steam. Stream. Stream. Whoa. don't cross the streams don't cross the streams sometimes you cross the streams oh my gosh but yeah that's where we're at guys so you know we're sitting there now with on the special teams just having to figure out the return game again which is the same issue we had last year so it's got to be something they figure out this year it's got to be something that becomes I'm not saying a priority because I get it it's not as important as quarterback edge offensive line you know some of the holes we have here in this team But it's got to be something we figure out, man. It's got to be. Like this can't be the end of the discussion here. Because it's just not good enough. Flat out, it's not good enough where we need to be. So kick-wise, we're good. It's just the returning part of that. So like I said, Oshefsky, if we keep him, great. We're not going to be upset if we don't. We just got to have someone there. So we'll have to see what they do. This is the time of the program usually we give you guys like, oh, this is the person we think we can get. This is the person that we would sign. When you're talking kick returners, guys, there are so many options. It's not even funny. We could sit here for a five-hour show on potential people we could pick up to return kicks. Let's talk about running back threes on three teams. Let's talk about you and me. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Whoa. I was just saying a lot. Not that kind of program, Rob. It's a family establishment. Like my wife. But yeah, I mean, that's where we're at, guys. Again, linebackers, we're sitting on. We're getting rid of Cam Brown. We're getting rid of Carter Coughlin, which we already know the Giants are going to do anyway. We're resigning Jerry Davis. We're resigning Isaiah Simmons, assuming that we can do it without breaking the bank here. And then we're going to go ahead and try to figure out the return game as we go. And what I mean by as we go is we're going to bring in people that we know can do it and let them battle it out. And we're going to make it a point to make sure we have people in camp that can do it. And we're not going to get rid of them. Like Jamison Crowder. Just saying. Should have kept him. Yeah. I'm not wrong. I'm not wrong. I'm not going to say otherwise. I don't think you're necessarily right, but I don't think you're necessarily wrong. I think it's a hindsight call. No, because... Once we saw what Sterling Shepard was, don't tell me the Giants didn't know what he was. That's utter BS if you think the Giants didn't realize how bad he was. So, I'm just going to call it like it is. I'm just going to call it like it is. I mean, here was... He averaged 7.9, so eight yards per kickoff for a punt return. That's what Jamison Crowder did for the Commanders. A whole lot better than the two yards that Eric Gray was going with. Not as good as O'Shefsky, but I'm saying. That has nothing to do with Shep there. No, but Shep didn't provide anything. How would he have, like, 100 yards all season? Yeah. Well, Jamison Crowder had 159 yards. He could have carried that part of the load. You're saying? I'm not trying to be a jerk about it. I'm just being honest. That was a mistake. But I think it's the hindsight of it. Because we talked about it at the beginning of the season. But again, it's not hindsight because... It's not hindsight, though, because of the fact that we were there to make that call. These guys were at the practices. Don't tell me Shepard looked great and none of us looked like shit once the season started. No, but, I mean, Crowder didn't. Don't tell me Eric Gray was looking spectacular returning punts in practice. But I'm sure Crowder also did not look great either. Oh, but he's a little better than what they had, is what I'm saying. Obviously not. He wasn't as good as he was, but I'm just saying. But I'm just saying he may have not looked that good in practice compared to the other two. Just saying. It's a little bit of hindsight, and so I'm just saying. I'm going to disagree. Respectfully disagree, sir. Okay. Respectfully. You're wrong. Anyway. Jerk. All right, guys. So usually this would be the point we say, let's get your comments. But obviously this is a recorded episode here because I had to go to a work event in Ocala. People don't know where Ocala is. It's the middle of the state of Florida where there's basically nothing to do except apparently a work trip for me. So joy. And that's a podcast. We'll be back. Yeah, so, well, the problem is that I'm going to be at a hotel that I have to share with somebody else. I never know what hotel Wi-Fi is going to be like. So, plus, I have a dinner Wednesday night, so I may have a few drinks. So, I don't know what's going to happen. So, therefore, we're recording ahead of time for that reason. But I'll be back tomorrow, which sounds great because it's not tomorrow when I'm recording this. But I'll be back for Thursday's episode. We'll be back live there. So, I'll shoot back in time. No problem to do that. So we're going to be discussing the secondary there, you guys. Doing our last group of the State of the Team. Going through, you know, maybe, I don't know, maybe some Xavier McKinney talk happens. I don't know. Who knows? Crazy. Crazy things have happened. So we'll be back to talk about that there for you guys tomorrow night. Of course, as always, we are live on YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, Twitch, YouTube, and, of course, Rob's favorite... Drew's LinkedIn page. Oh, Instagram. Yes, of course, LinkedIn page. Actually, this episode won't even be on the Instagram page because I can't set it up because I won't be there for it. Yeah, so let's skip this one on the Instagram. Sorry, Instagram people, but the platform sucks. Watch our rating go down on Instagram now. But we'll be back on. Like I said, of course, we're always on audio podcast land as well. The episode goes live the next day at 5 a.m. on Apple, iHeartRadio, Spotify, all the big ones there. So do follow us there. Do the like and subscribe there as well. Appreciate you guys for listening in. We will see you guys tomorrow. I'm sure to the right of us is some nasty comments and some good comments and some... smart alec remarks by connor probably as well so uh we will reply to those who who knows maybe watching live at that point ourselves just not having a spot to go record live so um again we'll see you guys all tomorrow and I appreciate as always for listening in watching and all that kind of fun stuff there and as always giant fans Go, J-Man! Go, J-Man! Thanks for listening to Two Giant Goofballs, a New York Giants podcast. We appreciate your support. Thanks so much.