State of the Team: Edge Position

In this episode of "State of the Team: Edge Position," we dissect the current state of the New York Giants' edge position, analyzing the performance of key players, exploring potential free agent acquisitions, and evaluating the upcoming draft class.

Beginning with a detailed examination of last season's statistics, we delve into the contributions of standout players like Kayvon Thibodeaux, Azeez Ojulari, and Oshane Ximines. With Thibodeaux entering the third year of his rookie deal and poised for a potential contract extension, we consider his promising trajectory and the implications for the team's long-term strategy at the edge rusher position.

In discussing potential free agent targets, we assess the market for edge rushers and highlight notable players like Josh Allen, Brian Burns, and Danielle Hunter. While some players are deemed not a fit due to salary expectations or fit with the team's defensive scheme, others like Jadeveon Clowney, Josh Uche, and Leonard Floyd emerge as possible fits based on their skill sets and expected contributions.

Looking ahead to the 2024 draft class, we acknowledge the relative weakness at the edge position and advocate for strategic roster management to address any gaps in talent and depth. While the team remains open to selecting an edge rusher if the right player is available, we emphasize the importance of prioritizing this position in free agency to ensure a well-rounded and competitive roster.

In projecting the roster for next season, we outline a potential lineup that balances experience, talent, and potential, incorporating both returning players and potential new additions. With a focus on maximizing the effectiveness of each player and optimizing the team's defensive strategy, we aim to position the Giants for success in the upcoming season and beyond.

In Giants news, the team demonstrated solid support from fans, ranking 7th in home attendance with 634,459 attendees and finishing 3rd overall with 1,262,352. Meanwhile, discussions swirl regarding a potential trade-up scenario with the Patriots for the #3 pick, with Daniel Jeremiah suggesting it could cost the Giants three 2nd round picks. However, analysis from drattek.com's 2024 trade value chart reveals complexities, leaving uncertainty about the viability of such a move, particularly dependent on available quarterbacks. In NFL updates, the Kansas City Chiefs have signed Matt Araiza, despite his turbulent history involving allegations that have since been dismissed. The Browns are contemplating releasing Nick Chubb to alleviate cap space, though conflicting reports suggest his future remains uncertain as he recovers from a significant knee injury. Additionally, safety Geno Stone's breakout performance has generated interest in his potential market value and movement within the league.

Through expert analysis, strategic insights, and insider information, this episode provides listeners with a comprehensive understanding of the New York Giants' edge position and the broader implications for the team's success in the upcoming season. Join us as we dissect the intricacies of the edge rusher position and explore the latest developments in the NFL in this episode of "State of the Team: Edge Position."

#nygiants #giants #nfl

Transcript

Welcome fellow goofballs to Giant Goofballs, a New York Giants podcast. I am Drew, joined as always by... I mean, hold up. Let's get the show on the road. Oh, yeah. It's time to talk a little bit. Oh, yeah. We're living on the edge. All right, Steven. I went back to that Aerosmith reference. Anybody like under the age of 35 is probably like, what? Living on the edge. It was a song in the 90s, people. Back when even then Aerosmith was old. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of scary. If you think about it, that was like 76, 78. So I remember growing up, Aerosmith in the 90s, and you'd be like, okay, that's a 20-year-old band. That's an old band. And now look at it back now, and I'm like... They're a 50-year-old band? No, no, no. Think about it. What was a 20-year-old band? I think 20 years ago, the music we listened to. And that's the equivalent of what Aerosmith was back then. I mean, you got the Foo Fighters just rocking their three-year-old band. That's what I'm saying. The Foo Fighters are the nowadays Aerosmith in a way. You know what I'm saying? Like, timetable-wise, it's just weird. It just goes, whoa. Green day, if you will. Mind-blowing, man. I feel old. I feel old. The reason I feel old is because I'm old. That's my direct synopsis on this here. All right, let's break out into the discussion here on the Edge Room. Because people didn't come here to hear us talk about Foo Fighters and Aerosmith. Even though, listen, we're going to have a music show. It'll be a great show, probably. We'll do some musical numbers, a little song and dance thing. It'll be spectacular. It's been a while since we broke out into a song and dance. Yeah, like last episode. Yeah. But here we are talking about the Edge Room. And listen, this is one of those things that... You can look at this room and go, oh, my God, this room did not perform well last year. You easily can. And to be 100% accurate, guys, 100% accurate. You got the issues of the Wink and Wilkins situation all into this as well, obviously. Drew Wilkins was the outside linebacker coach last year, so he was the guy coaching this group. He was fired because they weren't happy with what he was doing. You know, you had the up and down year of Kayvon Thibodeau with this. You had, you know, the often injured Aziz Ojolari in this. There's a lot of interesting angles and aspects of part of this year that we can discuss here. But this whole conversation, let's be very frank here, starts with one man who is the quote-unquote star slash stud of this group. And if you want to say that, you can also put in... you can put some quotations I think into that like star and stud because he's still a work in progress guys that's not to say he's not going to be a true star instead I think he will be but he's not quite there but that's the man the myth the legend himself cave on thibodeau uh 17 games 17 starts 50 tackles 12 for uh 12 tackles for loss we got a nice with 12 force fumbles 11.5 sacks, 16 QB hits, and a 58.5 PFF grade. So not a very high grade. And a lot of that issues with the grading on him, I really think stems from his issues against the run. He's almost like, he had like a, and some people may hate that I say it this way, but I'm going to say it this way. He had like an Yannick Ngakwe kind of year. Like, was really good against the pass, but if you really want to break down the numbers, he was really good against the commanders. He had like half his sacks against the commanders. But he wasn't very good against the run. He doesn't set the edge very well still. He's still learning that aspect of it. Like I said, still learning. I'm not taking that away as he can't learn. I think he can. He's got the ability. He's got the physical gifts to do it. he's just got to learn how to do it. And the fact that the Giants went right into, we need to get rid of Drew Wilkins, tells you a lot, I think, about what they think of this group. This is a group that has talent and hasn't performed up to what they think. Yeah. Yeah, I was about to allude to that myself. I was like, you get rid of Wilkins, sit there thinking, you get rid of Wake. They're telling you like, These players, they got the talent where they play to the best of their abilities, where they coach in the correct manner, where they could be the best players they could be on the field. Be all you can be in the edge room. So, I mean, next year we'll tell that. I just, to me, I feel like you look at a guy like K-Bomb. Second year in, 11.5 sacks. And this is – we talk about this when we talk about drafts. We'll talk about this again probably. There are certain positions that people go hit the ground running, and there are certain positions that take a couple years of growth. Edge is one of those that it takes a couple years of growth. We'll talk about some of the free agents that we're going to be having this year, and a lot of these guys are obviously coming off their rookie year. And some of them, it took a couple years to develop and do anything. That's just life at the edge position. You don't typically hit the ground running. Even spoiler alert, the biggest name out there, Josh Allen, he had a huge year this year. This was his first time having a huge year. He showed flashes before, but it took year four for him to become a beast. So for us to sit there and bash Kayvon Thibodeau in year two... would be ridiculous. This is a good growth year for a guy that we saw potential in flashes towards the end of last year, leaving out the whole snow angel thing and all that kind of fun stuff. I did, I did, I did. I know you did. I did. I'm that jerk. Like I said, I think he had a good year all in all. I think the biggest problem is that we're depending on Kayvon too much because it's all we have. And we'll get to the other names later on there. But if you had somebody who was halfway decent on the other side of Kayvon Thibodeau, you're not expecting the man to walk on water like some Giant fans are. Correct. Because especially since, you know, he's only one of two edges. Well, but it's also what you're getting out of the rest of it. Well, that's what I'm saying. If they're going to bully the other side, that's not Kayvon. Bully! Bully, bully, bully. Are you going Teddy Roosevelt? A little bit. But I mean, Kayvon's going into his third year. Listen, guys, he was the number five overall pick. He's shown you good things. You just got to hope the growth continues. And next year is where he starts looking like a stud edge player that I think he can be. And I do think he will be. uh and he's a guy who's built for new york on top of that I think he's a guy that could be one of those faces of the franchise kind of guys because he wants to be there's certain guys that don't want anything to do with the camera and there are certain people that love the camera he's a little he loves the camera he loves the camera he loves it he's like oh hello I want to have babies with you yeah even like even when you can't play well like he He doesn't really take it out on anyone but himself. No, that's the weird thing. He's been pretty good about his charisma in front of the camera. I guess that's the way to put it. I mean, it's like people talk about him sometimes like he has ego and he's self-centered and all he thinks about is himself and blah, blah, blah. I don't know where that comes from. I got to be honest. I feel like... Well, because they're taking... Just one side of the coin, because when things are good, he talks pretty highly about himself. Oh, that's fine. Which is perfectly fine. But when things are bad, he talks very bad about himself and how he needs to improve. So there's two sides to that coin. And when everyone talks about his ego, it's only the one side that everyone's talking about. I feel like, though, even then, he's still giving props to the teammates and stuff like that. And I think part of what it is is you see a guy who obviously, again, we've talked about loves the camera, dresses a little flashy, stuff like that. I think people automatically go to that style of personality because that's what they associate that with. You got to listen to the words the man says. He's a confident individual. He is. There's nothing wrong with that. It doesn't mean he's an egomaniac. He went into the league basically wanting to be the next Michael Strahan. I mean, all around. I mean, being a great NFL player, going into the media afterwards, all this stuff. He said that from the very get-go. Great. I could be mentored by Michael Strahan because that's who I want to be, basically. I want to have a media career afterwards. I want to do all this stuff. And listen, there is nothing wrong with having high hopes, having high expectations of yourself. There's nothing wrong with that, guys. Absolutely nothing. What do you want the guy to do? Complaining and saying people should be flipping burgers? I was about to say, what are you supposed to do? Oh, I guess I shouldn't be in the NFL making millions of dollars and playing for New York media because, God, who can handle that? Yeah, like I said, I'm feeling good about Kayvon. I'm feeling good about where he's at. I just want him to be a little more consistent with the pass rush and learn to set that edge better. And that's going to come with time. And we have a whole new coaching staff in here, obviously, new defensive coordinator, new outside linebacker coach, new linebacker coaches in general. And I think that that's going to, you're going to see some changes potentially and have these guys play. I do think, and I know this is kind of a controversial things. I've seen people pro and con on this. I do think he's also been put in the past coverage way too often. And I don't mean that as if to say you can't do it. What I am saying is you have two guys, really, that rush the passer on a consistent basis. Kayvon and Dexter Lawrence, to be very frank on that. That's what you got is your two beasts to get to the quarterback. So when it's third down and 12 and you're putting Kayvon at pass coverage, it's not necessarily good. so I like this like I said I'd like to see him more consistently just pin your ears back and go for the quarterback dude it's what you do you do it well do it play to the strengths let's not to say you never put him in coverage but I just I just think I see it too often yeah and guarantee that will change. Yes, I really do think so. I really do. Next up, we got a guy who's been with us now for two years, Jihad Ward. 17 games, 9 stars, 24 tackles, 5 tackles for loss, 5 sacks on the season, 9 QB hits, 42.4 PFF grade. Not very good at all, guys. That's a very low. You know, I feel like we asked the wrong things of Jihad Ward this year. So Jihad Ward has a specialty. He is a one trick pony. It's a good trick. And that is stopping the run. He's the opposite of cave on cave on passes. Rel doesn't necessarily stop the run. Well, Jihad Ward stops to run. Well, it doesn't necessarily pass rush. Well, it's what they are. Yeah. Um, But because of injuries and lack of other options, Jihad Ward was thrown into a starting role as opposed to a run-stopping role, which is what he should be in. And he was asked to do things that kind of took away from his run-stopping. So I'm pretty confident next year he'll go back to what he was and, you know, be good. He's a good team leader. He's a good personality in the locker room and all that stuff as well. But I... I think exactly. I'm with you. I don't expect it. So he's a free agent. He had a one and a half million dollar caps hit last year. But he probably won't resign with us because of all the Wink stuff. He's like, him and Wink are like this. As we say, they're BFFs. But here's the only thing that I, you know, when we first heard Wink was gone, I'm like, okay, well that means that Jihad Ward is gone too. Jihad Ward has publicly said, I play wherever Wink plays. Wherever he coaches, you know. But he can't go to Michigan. That's where Wink is now coaching. So it makes me wonder, is the door cracked up a little bit for there to be a reunion between these two? I don't know. That's only an answer that, you know, the people behind the scenes have an answer for there. Yeah, because it could go two ways. Like, behind closed doors, we don't know what happened. We don't. So Jahar Ward might be like, yo, I'll have to bounce because Wink bounced. Yeah. I mean, he could sit there and say, hey, I don't like what happened with my boy. I'm out. He could sit there and say, well, I want to follow him, but I can't go to Michigan. Can't go back to college. Yeah. So part of me thinks he bounces, but I would say 90% chance he bounces. But if you would ask people when Wink first got fired, I would have said 100% because he would go wherever Wink went. But because Wink went elsewhere, I honestly wonder if he'll end up with the Patriots because they're the ones who signed Drew Wilkins to be the coach there. So I wonder if that's what happens. I don't know. But it's a distinct possibility. I'll put it this way. If we lose Shahad Ward, I'm not going to cry about it either, though. No. He's not a bad depth piece. But he's not a starter. So my big thing is getting somebody to be on the other side of Kayvon that will actually do something. And I don't know that we have that guy in this roster right now. I know one guy we do have in that roster, but that could do it. But can't stay on the field. And that's our next guy. Aziz Ojolari. 11 games, 7 starts, 16 tackles, 3 tackles for loss, 2.5 sacks, 7 QB hits, and a 51.8 PFF grade. And this is his last year he's going into, guys, of his rookie deal. This is a, do I want to be a long-term giant or a long-term NFL player? Because this year may very well determine that. It could be his last year. So this is a recurring theme this episode that we keep on having here where I feel like I'm going to say it and I'm going to say it again. This may be the last time I say it to this group here. We're asking too much and the wrong things of Aziz Ocalari. Let's stay healthy? No, no. Here's why I say that. Okay. First off, I hear I'm getting bashed like crazy for the health issues. Hello, guys. Why did we get him in the late second round? Health issues. Oh, my God. The guy we drafted with health concerns can't stay healthy. Holy shit. Stop the presses. Who would have thought? I mean, what did we expect, guys? Nobody was drafting this guy who had first-round talent until the very end. We traded back in the second round and still got him. What's like we got him with the first overall pick in the second round? We got him at the very end of the second round. Yeah. When he was looked at as a guy we could have drafted with the first round pick and nobody would have batted an eye because no one knew with the behind-the-scenes injury issues. This is a guy that came into the league with those flags. And what have we done? Complained he got hurt. Oh, my God. Who would have thought? Who would have thunk? Here's where I'm at with him overall. is he needs to be put into a position where he's a guy who does what he does best, which, again, same as Kayvon, it's get to the quarterback. And he needs to get in a position where he's a specialty pass rusher that you put in passing down specifically, and that's it. And you try to keep him healthy, you keep his snap count down, you can serve him because that's what he is. That's what he provides. You want to put him on every single down, you want to put him in this running place where he's going to get hit, by a 350-pound center or guard or tackle, you're asking for him to get hurt again. Yeah. Conserve the man. Use him for what he does well. And don't complain that he's not an every-down player who's healthy all the time when you drafted a guy with health issues. The hell? Do you think in the NBA that drafting centers that complain they're too tall? ah it's like we're taking crazy pills here it's like what the hell did you expect this is what you got this is what you signed up for you signed on for the ride now you're complaining about it yeah yeah yeah it honestly annoys me because I see fans bashing this man like he doesn't want to be on the field of course he wants to be on the field who doesn't want to play You got a second round contract, guys. This is not a guy making millions of dollars a year. It's like, Drew, when you lived in Jersey and we're like, hey, let's go to Atlantic City. And 20 minutes into that drive down to Atlantic City, you're like, why is it taking so long? Yeah. And then I get there, why are all these shiny lights and casinos everywhere? Yeah. Why is all my money gone? Yeah. His cap number, folks, this year is $2.1 million, just to give you a heads up. Assuming he completes the year, he's made $6.7 million in the four years. In the four years. When he's a free agent, he'll make that one year. I guarantee you that. Oh, yeah. Guarantee you that. He's not a rookie. So what I'm just trying to say is like, You have to understand sometimes that guys want to be in the field. They can't. They can't. That's not the way the world works. They don't just will it to happen. They either can stay healthy or they can't. And if you have a guy who can't, you need to do what you can to help him. And putting him on the field nonstop does not help him. No. It doesn't help him, point blank. So, yeah, I'll get I'll get off my soapbox. I just I just like I said, I like Aziz. I like what he provides. You know, when you look at it and again, I get this before, but I got a sales background. So therefore, I've kind of been trained to read things in people and I tend to be a pretty good people reader. And everything about this man, when I see him talk, tells me that he is a good person. He just seems like a very good person overall. All of a sudden, Rob lost his light. Are you still there, Rob? It's so dark. Oh, God. Like I said, he just seems like a really good person. Listen, I'm going to root for every Giant, regardless if I think they're a good person or not, per se, because they're a Giant. But when you see somebody you think is a good person, you're going to root for them even more. So I root for the guy. I hope he does well. I hope he gets healthy this year. I hope he gets used properly. And I hope he performs. Because to me, a good performance for him is a part-time role as a pass rush specialist where he gets like six or seven sacks a year. I think that's a legitimate thought process on what he should be and where he should be. That's a legitimate outcome. And listen, if you got a guy in the second round who's a pass rush specialist and he gets you six or seven sacks a year, that's not bad. If he was a 10 sack guy, he'd be a first round pick. Hmm. So, like I said, I'll get off my soapbox. All right, let's go off to the next guy here. We're getting to the backups now, the true backups. We have Boogie Basham first. Probably the worst trade we've made last year. Yeah, but a great name. Terrible trade. Yeah, I bet he lived up to the name. 13 games, zero starts. 11 tackles, no other really significant stats to talk about. 55.0 PFF grade. But he does have one thing very important going for him, and that's just a $1.4 million cap hit with no guaranteed money next year. So he was not good last year, guys. Yeah. What I find interesting, though, is He wasn't necessarily great in Buffalo. And yet Joe Shane traded for him. Joe Shane was obviously on the team of people who drafted him. It's almost like Joe Shane sees something nobody else sees in this kid. And I don't know what it is. I'd love to know. Well, he probably saw something or maybe he was hoping it, you know, hoping that light, you know, light don't strike twice because I mean, The year prior, we pick up Isaiah Hodgins halfway through the year, who was a known camp body that no one saw anything in. We pick him up, becomes one of the best receivers on the team. He maybe probably thought he could do the same thing with Boogie Basham. He's like, oh, I draft this guy. He's probably still good. Just, you know, the Bills were a better team and I think it was a move out of desperation. He went with a known quantity as opposed to risking getting somebody maybe not be a good fit in the locker room or anything like that. He knew. I think that's what it was. I honestly do. We didn't give up a lot for him. He was what a seventh round pick we gave up for him. I think I want to say it was. So seventh round picks are typically, you know, throw away people that half the time don't even make the original roster. So it's not the biggest loss in the world. I just didn't see anything positive from him. I didn't see much from him in general. Um, But I do think he'll be on the roster next year, at least as a camp bot in the beginning because of the fact that, like I said, $1.4 million, no guaranteed money. There's no reason to cut him. You don't free up a ton of money, and you can cut him at any point and not have any worries. So, yeah. he'll be he'll be back for how long we'll see but at least in the preseason he'll be back uh next up a man that I cannot believe we're still talking about going into oh my gosh like I can't believe he's still there oh shane ziminez just three games no starts four tackles two qb hits a 70.2 pff grade though guys That's the highest PFF grade of anybody. Well, when you take a fraction... I understand that. I'm just pointing out Listen, the man gets a lot of hate. The man gets a lot of hate. And I got to say, I don't think all the hate is warranted. I mean, if you were expecting him to be a starter and blow things away, great. Yeah, you're going to be disappointed. But if you're looking for somebody to be a backup that is just kind of there and doesn't do great things but doesn't do horrible things, that's what he is. Yeah. Again, not everyone can be a star in the league. He's now five years into the league. And obviously, there's something about him that Giants like because he spent five years with the Giants. And he's a free agent. He signed last year for $1.04 million was his exact number there. Obviously, the number goes up a little bit each year you're in the league. But listen, if we can sign him for that kind of deal again with no guaranteed money and bring him into camp, I'm cool with that. I have no problems with that whatsoever. I'm a realist in what he is. As long as he's cheap. I don't think anybody's going to break the bank for O'Shea and Simmons. I think that's fair to say. All right. We got two more guys here that barely played, so we'll go through them quick. Benton Whitley, three games, zero starts, zero tackles, one fumble recovered, a 30 PFF grade, a free agent. Again, if we want to bring him in with no guaranteed money, whatever. I don't care if we want to bring him for a camp body. I couldn't care less either way. Yeah. Couldn't care less. Timon Fox, next up. One game, zero starts, one tackle, 57.5 PFF grade. He's on next year with a $915,000 cap hit with no guaranteed money. So again, he goes into the Boogie Basham column. He'll be on the team next year. He has no guaranteed money. There's no reason you wouldn't bring him into camp. It's been his third year now with the team. So, you know, see what he's got. But I'll say this. If you remember... what happened during all the reports of Wink and Dable? One of the issues was is that Timon Fox was given a different number because Wink said that he would be starting. Wink said he'd be on the roster. I'm sorry, not starting. And this was news to Dable and Shane. That tells you something, that Timon Fox is potentially a Wink guy. Meaning that Wink was the reason he was around. Wink liked him a lot. Again, I could be reading too much into that part of the story. But it's a possibility that is the scenario. And if that is the scenario and he doesn't have any friends besides Wink, he's going to come in for a camp body and probably that's it. Could be. It could be. Potential. It's potential. So... Let's go into the free agents, guys, because we have a ton of free agents to go over. You want to talk about a category of people where there are tons of options. Listen, this is where we're at here is the edge position. There are a ton of big names. If you need to pick up an edge rusher, this is the year to do it, guys. And guess what? We need to pick up an edge rusher because... This is just, we need him. We need a guy to go to Kayvon. Kayvon's not a Batman right now, guys. He's a Robin. He's a Nightwing. Wow, he went there. Some people think he's a Red Hood. I'm okay with that, too. Either way, though. He's a little bit more than just a Robin. I'm okay with two Robins. Here's the thing, though. I'm okay with two Robins because we have Dexter Lawrence. Or Nightwing and... Please stop. Maybe it's two different Robins. Maybe we got Tim Drake and the new one that's Rajah Ghul's daughter's kid that Bruce Wayne had. Damien, is that his name, the new Robin? I think so. We're getting way too much of the DC canon here. Anyway, I'm okay with having two Robins, no matter what Rob says, because of the fact that we have Dexter Lawrence. We have a pass rusher that plays an off position where you don't usually expect that kind of pass rush from. So we're going to go over some of the top names, but I'm going to give you guys forewarning. I don't want to spend $20, $30 million on a pass rusher, guys. We don't have it. No. No. We've been kicking the can down for the past few years, even though we said we're not going to kick that can down the road. We can't put a pass rusher on Kmart Layaway. It's not an option, guys. Blue light special. Let's go over the options that are out there. And I did it based on PFF's grades of top edge rushers. But I also added a name at the bottom that I personally think is a good fit. And I'm kind of curious to see what happens with him. First off, we got the big name, Josh Allen. We talked about him before. He took the Buffalo Bills to the playoffs. No, no, no. Not that Josh Allen. Not that Josh Allen. Wrong Josh. Josh Allen from the Jaguars. 66 tackles, 17.5 sacks, 89.5 PFF grades, just 26 years old. Spotrak lists him at 23.9 is the expected salary. I'm going to give you guys what they gave you. That's the website I use. Pretty good judge. But, I mean, listen, there's always a bidding war. There's always a possibility someone's going to go to a little cray-cray and give way too much money. Yeah, especially if the team thinks that it's the missing piece to go to the Super Bowl. I would not be shocked at all if one of the big names in the pass rush category gets a $30 million a year contract. And this is the guy most likely to do it if the Jaguars don't tag him. What I really think is going to happen is the Jaguars will tag him. He'll be on a one-year deal or he'll sign an extension with them, whatever the case may be, and he'll never hit the open market. We'll see. Next up, Brian Burns of the Panthers. 50 tackles, 8 sacks last year, 74.1 PFF grade, still just 25 years old. Yeah, this is a guy I want absolutely nothing to do with Brian Burns. Absolutely. He basically admitted to playing soft and taking it easy last year because of how bad the Panthers were. And then his people had the audacity to release they won a $30 million a year contract. Dude, you had a 74.1 PFF grade last year. Eight sacks. I'm good. Yeah, maybe if he doubled that because he weren't playing like a jerk. Yeah. Let me put it this way. I just say this to sound bad, but again, guys, I'm a realistic Giants fan. Why would I want a guy who basically took an off year on a bad team and put him on the Giants, a bad team? Yeah. Calling it is. So, yeah. Anyway, Spotrack's giving him a 21.7 is their expected salary. So either way, too much money. I'm good. I'm good. Yeah. And yeah, you got Daniel Hunter from the Vikings. Next up, 83 tackles, 16 and a half sacks, a 78.0 PFF grade, 29 years old. Spotrek is giving him a $20 million salary expectation. Again, too rich for my blood. So I'm just moving on. Let's let's disagree. Rob, feel free to stop me. I'm just kind of, I just, no, I agree with you because that's just, it's too much. Like, He's a good player. He might be a good fit. It's just there's other holes we got to fill. Yeah. If you want to pay $20 million to a pass rusher, guys, when we have less than $30 million in cash base, I mean, granted, we can do things. We can maneuver things. We always can do that. Don't get me wrong. But what are you willing not to fill to do that, guys? Are you willing to not get a tackle? Are you willing to not get a corner? Are you willing to not get, not to re-sign Barkley or not to re-sign McKinney? Because you're taking that money from somewhere else. As soon as you sign a guy like Contra, guess what? No McKinney, most likely no Barkley. So to me, it's too rich for my blood. Yeah. Like I said, I don't think this is a position that we have to go crazy on. I think we need a legit guy. We don't have to go crazy. Now, here's a guy. We're going to start getting into the more realistic salaries, guys. Here's a guy that I've heard a lot of people talk about. A lot of people. um bryce huff at the jets and obviously a lot of them is because of the fact that giants fans live typically in the new york area you know unless you're me and you hate cold weather um but they typically live in new york area the jets also obviously play new york therefore people tend to know their teams by default because blackout games and you get forced into watching jet games if you live in the new york area remember that as a kid that was always great oh gotta watch the giants and watch the shitty jets Or, you know, just turn on New York radio and you just have to listen to how bad the Jets did. That's life. So Bryce Huff on the year, 29 tackles, 10 sacks, 79.7 PFF grade, also just 25 years old, but a really young guy. Spotrack lists him as a $9.2 million expected salary next year. That's not bad. That's now in the realm of where I'm willing to spend. I think $10 million is kind of that ceiling for me of where I want to be. Yeah. I mean, if you get a guy like this, okay. Yeah. I would like to spend a little bit less, but you also got to take value where it values at. Yeah. Here's my biggest concern I have with this guy, though. He never had, prior to this year, more than three and a half sacks in a season. In any of his prior three seasons. It's not like we have a 15-year-old veteran and we have all these different years. Only three prior seasons to this. But still, three and a half sacks was his highest prior to this year. Everybody who listens to the show on a regular basis knows my theory. I don't like to buy high. I don't like to buy off a career year. Because there's always that concern. Now, at the same point, if he does this again, we talked about this yesterday with Dexter Lawrence. That's what I was about to say. Dexter Lawrence is a great example of the complete opposite. If he repeats this year, next year, whoever signs him is going to look like they've got a freaking bargain, probably. Yeah. But it's a risk you take. It's a risk-reward kind of scenario at that point. And if you're somebody who likes to gamble, go for it. This is a good gamble pick. This is a good value pick. It's like shopping on Teemu or whatever that app is called now. But my biggest concern I have is he's never been really a full-time starter. So he played 42% of the defensive snaps last year for the Jets. The prior seasons, his percentages, 20%, 51%, 30%. So I have some concerns. Because you're asking a guy to be the guy who's never been the guy. Just based on the snap count. Can he do it if you put him at an 80% snap rate? Does he then go to 14, 15 sacks and go with a crazy year? I don't know. There's a lot of unknowns. There's a lot of unknowns with this guy. And I think people look at him just because I think, again, people living in the New York area and seeing him on a regular basis when he plays with the Jets go, okay, here's a guy I would love to have. Let's get him. But let's not kid ourselves and not think there's not risk to go with it. Cause there's definitely, definitely risks going on there guys. Um, and you know, next up after him, it's another guy that definitely comes with risks. And yeah, it's a big name and I'm telling her right now, you're going to hear a lot of people interested in him. Um, because he's a big name. That's what it all boils down to. Um, And that's Chase Young. When he came out of college, he was this force, supposedly. He was the best pass rusher in that draft. He was going to be an automatic all-pro kind of player. That's the way he was touted as. He was probably the most touted non-quarterback in a lot of years. And he hasn't lived up to that, guys. know rob and I called that out last year when people were like acting like this man walks in the water like he's not he hasn't done it yet stop giving the man credit for what he has was suppose he has done that he hasn't yeah he got hurt just one year like oh he could have been so great because the injury So last year, obviously, he split time with the Commanders and the Niners because he got traded midseason. 25 tackles, 7.5 sacks, 74.4 PFF rating. And he's still just 24 years old, guys. He's as young as some of the guys coming out in this draft. That's one of the really scary parts about this. Spotrack's suggesting a $13 million average salary for him. And I think what's going to happen is they're going to have somebody fall in love with the name, and they're going to overpay the hell out of him. Let it not be us. Exactly. I do think that he is a talented guy. I do think he's his own worst enemy. If you listen to stuff coming out of San Francisco, there was a lot of people out there saying that he was taking plays off. He wasn't quite into it. Didn't live up to that quote-unquote 49er way. So, I don't know. That'd be a guy that would scare the crud out of me, and I would take him right off my list for that reason alone. If I'm hearing that kind of stuff, I don't want a guy like that. I want a guy who's going to be a lunch pail guy who's going to put the work in. because that's contagious when you're around that think about your own job if you work around people who are happy people overall that go to work and put an effort that makes you they don't have to be the best they don't have to be the best but they're above average doing well and you got that guy that is great and he goes down and he goes up and he goes down But that's also contagious, too. Like, oh, everyone's high. Everyone's low. Everyone's high. But you got the guy that's consistently put in as much as he put in. And you're a better worker than he is. And you're like, oh, damn, look at Steve over here. He's constantly putting the work in. Yeah. Then you constantly put the work in at a higher level than Steve does. Yeah, it's a contagious thing, and I don't want that kind of contagion in the locker room. I don't. Next up, a guy that I don't think really got enough credit last year for what he did. Jonathan Greenard, from the Texans, 26 years old, 52 tackles, 12.5 sacks, 78.2 PFF grade. That's a legit season, guys. That's a legit freaking season. Now, one concern I should say right off the bat for you guys, he played in a 4-3 defense as an outside linebacker. He's played edge before, but he was a 4-3 guy last year. So there is some concern with that, obviously. um he also has much like chase young some injury issues he's only played in 48 of the possible 66 games he could have played in his career he missed nine games in 22 first season over eight sacks last year guys though so I look at as the guy that spotrack's listing a 13.4 million dollar salary So this is the guy who's going to be another boom or bust for me because he's got the injury concerns. Is he coming off his best year? But he's also young and had a great year. Yeah. So there's pros and there's cons, guys. To me, I don't want a part of that. I have enough guys with injury issues on this roster already. I'm good. I don't need them. Yeah, I'm good. Yeah, I don't need them. Yeah. Let's get to the first guy that I actually have in the quote-unquote green category that I'm good with. And this is a guy that is, you know, I would say this. For me to say I'd want him, I'd have to know him personally because I'd want to know why he's moved around so much this league. And I want to kind of get a vibe for who he is as a person. But Jadavion Clowney, who played with the Ravens last year, 43 tackles, 9.5 sacks, 85.7 PFF grade. And it feels like he's played for average 31 years old guys, though. He's still got years. This is a guy that basically 9.5 sacks ties his career best. He's done that a couple times now. Never had a double-digit sack season. But he's also excellent against the run. And that's one thing that you don't really hear enough on edge people because it's something that doesn't show up in stats necessarily. He is excellent at setting the edge and forcing guys that maybe want to do a sweep off the tackle to have to go sweep like towards the end zone. We can get them towards the sideline because he's just right there plugging that hole. That's what he does. He's good at that. You know, he stops the shorts, you know, wheel routes, stuff like that. He does this kind of stuff that you don't see on the stat line. He's a very good player that unfortunately never gets the credit because he moves around so much and because of the fact he doesn't have a high sack number. And he's not an all-time great. I'm not trying to go crazy like that. But he's a legit, good, solid player. Yes. I mean, he also lived in a shed of Watt. Yes. And still had nine sacks a year, and that's it, when he was playing against Watt. And Miles Garrett in Cleveland. He's been a Robin, basically, for much of his career. No, yeah. Now, here's your Nightwing. Here's your Nightwing. There you go. You wanted a Nightwing, there's your Nightwing. It's the Red Hood. We got the Nightwing. But like I said, I think that's where you're looking at with him. He's a guy that if you don't need a Batman... But you want a solid, solid guy who plays the run, plays the pass, has a track record in this league, has gone to multiple teams and shown similar success on multiple teams. This is a guy. This is a safe pick, guys. And you take a guy like this, who, like you just said, good against the run, and who our Robin or our Nightwing is, is not good against the run. You don't think the two of them are going to talk? You don't think it's going to help him out? Yeah. I would take him in a heartbeat. Spotrak lists him at a $7.2 million salary as their expectation, too. That's it. That's a low, I think. I think, honestly, he's going to be a little more than my ceiling. I said $10 million is where I want to be. And listen, if I got to crack the ceiling a little bit to get a guy that I think is a perfect fit, there's always exceptions to every rule. Yeah. Well... And like I just said, if he helps Tibbs work on his run defense as well, it's worth it. Yeah, it definitely is. All right, next up. Zedarius Smith played last year with the Cleveland Browns. Obviously, former Packer, former Viking. 27 tackles, five and a half sacks last year. 82.6 PFF grade, and he's 31 years old now. He's had 10 or more sacks in three out of the last four seasons prior to this. The only season he didn't have that, of those four, he played one game in 21. I think you could excuse somebody not getting 10 stacks in the season. Well, I don't know. Seems a little... And he said his health issues have been covered throughout the year, so I'm not worried about him being a consistently hurt guy like Chase Young or some of those kind of guys. He's been healthy for the year. He had one year he got hurt in week one and just ended the season. Spotrak listed him as a $12.4 million expected salary. That guy's way too rich for my blood. As much as I like the player, that's way too rich for my blood. So I'm good. Next up, you got, and you know what? I got to say this. I should have looked up to verify the pronunciation of his name beforehand because it drives me nuts when I listen to podcasts, they say the name's wrong. Especially last year was when we got Bobby Okereke and people were like, Okariki. People couldn't pronounce his name with anything. Josh, I'm going to assume it's Uche. U-C-H-E. The Patriots. I got to admit that besides our Patriot game, I didn't really watch a lot of the Patriots last year. He was a big name in 22. I'm drawing a brain fart right now as we're recording. He's having to pronounce the name here. 15 tackles, 3 sacks, 57.1 PFF grade last year. He's 25 years old. And 22 is why he's on this list. In 22, he had 11.5 sacks. But he's a pass rush specialist is what he is. Never plays more than 30% of the defensive snaps. So interesting that I said that with Ojolari. Here's another guy that you can go ahead and put in there for a couple of snaps like that. Split the time maybe with Ojolari. And the two of them combined. yeah are are your your other edge uh spotrak lists him as a 8.3 million dollar salary so again within range within a range of where we want to be um what just scares me a little bit is I look at him and I kind of compare him to a guy like Bryce Huff. So Bryce Huff and him are kind of interesting in the fact that if you combine their 22 and 23, they had similar production. It's just one had a good year in 23 and one had a good year in 22. so is one of them worth eight million dollars and the other one then now you know worth nine million dollars and again we're talking a million dollar difference there but they had similar two years why would I not want to save the million dollars and have that for somebody else and again I can see where you can go you know what this guy did it last year I want the guy to last year it's a reasonable assumption But you can also look at how good we were in the Patriots last year. No, yeah. And that's 100% what it was. And, you know, not only did he have that, but he ended up having to be the guy because, you know, Matt Judon was injured for much of the year. I'm trying to look up right now as we talk how many games he missed last year. He said four games. So you basically had this guy now who was a Robin asking him to be a Batman. He's not a Batman. So, you know, put him in a role that makes sense for him and you could see this guy potentially flourish again. Because when you're double teaming a guy who's a Robin, yeah, that's not good. Double teaming a Robin makes him look like a young Bruce Reign when his parents got killed and couldn't stop him. It's what it is. We're using the Batman reference like crazy tonight. But I'm just saying, that's... Not the pearl necklace, the actual pearl necklace. It's like it's going to happen when you have no other pass rusher and he's put in that position. He got doubled all last year. That's why he has three and a half sacks and that's three sacks and that's it. But again, if you put him, I think, with a guy like Ojolari, I think that's a good one-two combo on the other side that you keep on just flipping him back and forth at that point there. And maybe that helps keep Ojolari healthy next year. Yeah, keep them both fresh. Keep them both running down and going against you. And you hope Kayvon is the Batman that you want him to be. Guys, we drafted him fifth overall. He better be a goddamn Batman. If he's not, that's a bad pick. I hate to say it that way, but it is. Let me be very clear on this. It doesn't make him a bad player if he doesn't turn into a Batman. It makes it a bad pick. Correct. There's a difference. He's already a good player. He's already a legit NFL player in this league. But if he's not a Batman, it's a bad pick because you want to pick a Batman at pick five. You want a Batman in your top ten. Exactly. Next up, we have a guy that I feel like has been talked about to the New York Giants there every single year. This is a guy the Giants have clearly wanted every single offseason, just never gotten the chance to get because, you know, money and all that kind of fun stuff here. Leonard Floyd, who played for the Bills last year, 32 tackles, 10.5 sacks, 56.3 PFF grade, 31 years old, so... Still got some years there, but he's not a spring chicken anymore. Spotrack's listing him as an estimate at $8.1 million average salary. And I think a lot of that probably, to be very frank, is because he's 31. The guys that get the big contracts, the guys who are 26, just coming off their rookie deals. Those young guys. The young blood. Exactly, because they're hoping they haven't reached their peak. I think it's safe to say that 31 years old, you've reached your peak. It's just a matter of when you start climbing down the mountain again. So, listen, you got a guy that, again, 10.5 sacks, but a 56.3 PFF grade. What does that tell you? He didn't do very good against the run. Correctamundo. But he's still a legit talent in this league. So if you can get him at $8 million, I've seen a lot worse. I've seen a lot worse. So, and like I said, the giants, every single year, remember they wanted this guy in the draft. Like we got traded up on because everybody knew the giants wanted him in the draft. What is probably like 10 years ago now at this point, it feels like probably 31 in all fairness, people come out 21, 22, usually, you know, minus these COVID year kids that are 30 years old and coming out of the draft now. Um, I had to look it up yet. 2016, he was the ninth overall pick. Yeah. So eight years ago. Yeah. And that was the Bears traded a fourth-round pick and went up from 11 to 9 to leapfrog us because everybody knew. Everybody and their mother knew that we wanted him. So we didn't get him. That was back when we had no linebackers that were any good at all. Maybe. Next up, we have one last guy. This guy I added to the list. I'm adding this guy. Screw you, PFF. We're doing it. Because this is a good player here that for some reason is not on the list. I think he is a perfect, as Eartha Kitt would say, perfect fit for the New York football giants. A.J. Espinosa from the Buffalo Bills. So obviously Joe Shane probably has some kind of relationship with his people. Just throwing that out there as well. Obviously Joe Shane knows him well. Probably scouted him a lot. 20 tackles, 6.5 sacks, 80.3 PFF grade. Still just 25 years old, so another younger guy. They're averaging him, Spotrak saying, suggesting a $5.6 million salary for him. That's what I like. Nice, cheap... I've said it before, guys. I am saying it again. We are not at the position to spend like crazy. You spend smartly. And that's a smart buy there if that's the price. Again, you can guess price is all you want and what it's going to cost to go ahead and sign a guy. $5.6 million or so, if that is the number that this man goes for. That is a freaking steal as far as I'm concerned. Absolute steal. Now, he only played and it plays about 40% of the snaps typically with the Bills. But keep in mind the Bills are loaded with talent. So you give him a chance to play more. You have Ojalary if you need to split some snaps with him at that point. And this, like I said, to me, this is a good... Again, he's gotten six and a half sacks, by the way, guys, both of the last two years, playing 40% of the snaps. Now, I am not the best at math. I know I'm not the best. Rob knows I love to break out my calculator and do the math. I don't think I need the calculator for this one. So let's say, hypothetically, he's doing 40% of the snaps. He's got six and a half snaps in the season. Six and a half sacks in the season. We're going to put him to 80%. That would double his number, which would put him at 13 sacks on the season. Granted, the math doesn't always work out that kind of way. I'm just saying, this is a guy who's kind of sat as a backup kind of player with them because of the talent they have. But a guy they like and a guy they think has a lot of talent. But his rookie contract is now up. He can go somewhere and be a true starter. And I think this is a guy that we should look at because he's going to be cheap. He's going to be a guy that you can get on like a four-year deal probably for that kind of number. Imagine getting a guy like this. Let's say we get four years, $28 million, and the guy turns into, let's say, a nine-sack season guy. Nothing crazy. Let's say nine sacks a season. Yeah. And does decent against the run, because look at that PFF grade, guys. I feel like I'm kissing PFF's butt here all the time with these things, but there's things that don't show up on stats. Let me get that off your nose for you. I'm just saying, there's things that don't show up on stats, and that's one thing I like to use PFF for that reason. 80.3 PFF grade. What does that tell you? He's only seen 40% of the defensive snaps get six and a half sacks. So he's obviously going to be good against the pass. That's the greatest run. Yeah, you're doing great against the run if you have that high of a PFF grade as well. Again, $5.6 million salary is what they're expecting. Joe Shane, here's your guy. Get it done. Get her done. Get her done. And I'll say this. I didn't scour the free agent market where I'm looking at every single stat. I looked at names, and I'm like, who makes sense for the Giants? And this guy popped up, again, because of the Bills connection, because of the fact that he's a good against the run kind of guy, a guy that Joe Shane and Dave will have probably some kind of relationship with, like I said. And he popped up. There might be a second guy that fits these kind of categories as well. If you can get two kind of AJ Espinosa kind of guys and spend $11, $12 million, guys, you just shirt up that edge room real quick. I'll throw it even out there like that. But I'll say this. Even if you get just one guy like that, I'm good. I don't think we need to go in a rush and go crazy on the edge position, guys. I know a lot of people will tell you that we need to. We don't. Do we need talent there? Yes. We need a talented piece to put next to Kayvon Thibodeau. But we don't need to go crazy because we don't have the money to do it. We don't have the ability to do it overall unless you want to, I guess like I said before, unless you want to go ahead and not fill other needs. You're sacrificing at that point to do it. So here's the list we got of deemed not a fit. Josh Allen. Brian Burns, Neil Hunter, Bryce Huff, Chase Young, Jonathan Greenard, and Zedaria Smith. So basically, again, what we're telling you guys is If it's a big name, we probably don't want him because he's going to be too expensive. What it boils down to, we've got to fit guys within a certain angle. And here's another thing I want people to consider as well that I haven't seen very much. Is Connor, yes, we are still here. I see your comment, Connor. It says, after this season, Kayvon Thibodeau is eligible for an extension. And Joe Shane's already showed he likes to extend people as soon as he can that he thinks are long-term fits. Dexter Lawrence, Andrew Thomas, he's done it. So he showed promise in his sophomore year, Kayvon did. If he continues to improve, he may turn into a very highly paid edge. if you sign a highly paid edge this year, this off season, guys, you're basically kissing cave on goodbye. Cause you're not going to pay two edge rushers, 20, $25 million a year. You're not going to do it. It's not feasible. Yeah. And that's part of why I say this is we're not going to get a big name. And I want you guys to think about this kind of stuff because I can't say how many other content creators I see out there for the Giants talking about these big names. And we have to get one of them. We have to get one of them. We have no pass rush. We have to get this guy. We have to get that guy. We already have the guy who's supposed to be the guy. And if he turns into the guy, you can't afford him if you go ahead and get somebody else. So that's not to say they're wrong, but you have to think of that in the situation. If you go out and sign, let's say Josh Allen doesn't get franchise tagged, and you go ahead and sign him now to a $25 million a year contract, you have to understand you're saying goodbye to Kayvon. And if you're okay with that, that's fine. Unless you find some veteran who you're going to pay that money to, who you're going to send to a one-year contract... I just, this way you can allocate it later down the cave on, but what, what does that do for your team? Yeah. But if you listen to guys who actually worked in front offices in the NFL, been prior GMs and all, these guys don't think about this offseason, guys. They think about multiple offseasons. They think about what's going to happen long-term with this team. And that's the long-term prognosis you have to think about in these decisions. Same as they let Julian Love walk last year because they wanted to make sure they had the option to keep Xavier McKinney if they wanted to. That's part of their decision they had. This year, you have that with Kayvon. If you sign a big-name pass rusher, bye-bye Kayvon. He will not be here long-term because you can't afford them both. Unless you have it set up that you do an out-after-two-years kind of thing with this big edge rusher and you expect Kayvon to play in his fifth-year option and that kind of stuff. But then you run the risk of an angry Kayvon because he wants the long-term deal. Again, these are all thought processes I want you all to think about when you talk about these kind of things. Because I'll tell you, most people don't tell you guys to think about these things. But you have to. This is how the NFL works. Now on to the draft class. And this is where I become a real negative Nancy. This is a weak draft class at edge guys, point blank. It is a weak edge class. That's not to say there's not a couple guys in there. It's not to say you can't get somebody later on. But if you want a legit edge, this is not the edge class for you. The senior bowl showed that because the offensive lineman dominated the defensive lineman. And these are drills that you expect the defensive lineman to win. How you judge the offensive lineman is how long does it take for the defensive lineman to get through. And they couldn't get through in some of these cases. They were just dominated point blank. This is a good year if you need offensive lineman. It's a bad year if you need defensive lineman. So nothing should stop us from taking the right player if the right player is available at the right time and we think the need matches the abilities. But we need to cover getting a legit starter to go across Kayvon in free agency. That's where it's got to be. And you guys don't hear me say that often. I like to leave options open. This is a situation where we need to fix that in free agency. So here's where we're at for the projected roster here. So most 53-man rosters will keep four to six edge rushers. We got Kayvon. We have a free agent signing, whoever we sign. We have Aziz Ojolari making him now a pass rush specialist. Again, guys, 16 career sacks in 35 games. If you don't think that man can rush the passer, you're not watching. Because this was actually his worst year. Last year, if you went to his stats last year and took out this year here, he had 13.5 sacks in 24 games. Yeah, big difference. Put him in the position he needs to be. Let's make him that pass for a specialist. And then for backups, you got Boogie Basham, O'Shane Ziminez, if we can sign him to a short deal, again, to Montfox. Don't get me wrong, guys. This is not a great lineup still. I'm not suggesting that. It's a realistic lineup, though. It's a realistic lineup. And if you can get Ezejo Jalari in the right position to keep him healthy, you can get somebody that's a legit edge rusher to be on the opposite side of Kayvon, like an AJ Espinosa kind of guy, like a David Clowney, then you made the right move. You got it. You fixed the starting lineup, and you just hope that the starters stay healthy. I hate to say it that way, but sometimes you do that. You just hope the guys stay healthy because you can't fix all the problems in one-off season when you have issues. So that's where we're at. So we're trying to fix the one issue, which is having a second legit starter and hoping that amongst the guys we have, one of them is a good backup. And we got to hope it's Aziz and he's healthy for once. So that's where we're at, guys. So, all right, let's pay the bills real quick. Let's get to the comments. And then we got a little bit of Giants and NFL news to go over with you guys here. And then we got to head on out here for the nap. Enjoying the show? Looking for more goofball action? Consider a membership at buymeacoffee.com slash two giant goofballs. Memberships start at just $5 and give you additional goofball access. One-time support payments also available starting at just $3. Buymeacoffee.com slash two giant goofballs. All righty, guys. Let's get to the comments here real quick here. So Deb says Aerosmith started in 1970. Yeah. 90s, 70s, 20 years. I think if she's saying probably because, and this is bad. I was. I said 76, 78. Oh, is that what you said? Okay. I was saying. I said 76, 78. Yeah. 1970, 1971. I want to say. So yeah. Toys in the attic came out, which is where dream on came out, which is probably 71. Now I'm thinking about it. yeah yeah I want to say yes actually dream on was 73. oh yeah yeah so isn't the act was their second album look at this going to the specific albums even But, yeah, I said they were good. They're still good. There's crazy allegations occasionally against Steven Tyler. I don't know. I won't get into that. But, I mean, listen, the band's good. The band's been good for 50 years. I'll take it. I don't know. I have a sinking feeling about this team. Listen, there's a lot of people negative on this team. There's this. I think that it's crazy. People love to hate the Giants. But, listen... We weren't a good team last year. There's not further to go, really, guys. We have nowhere to go but up at this point. The truth. I hate to say it that way, but it's the truth because watch us be like the Panthers next year. But if that's the fact, then there we go. If that's the case, then fine. We got the best quarterback in the draft next year. There's a silver lining no matter what. I'm at that point where there's nothing that you can do that can make me extremely ticked off because we're already hitting bottom. We're already at the bottom, guys. Anthony says DJ was traded to the Falcons for the first round pick and our first round pick WTF. And obviously that did not happen. Good try, Anthony. He says, same with Simmons. Was Simmons traded as well? He says, that's why I'm in on any of these Dumas' quarterbacks that are supposed to be generation talent. And what he's saying is we talked about Chase Young, I think, because we said Chase Young was supposed to be this great at things to slice bread. And he wasn't. And he isn't. Uh, Deb says, I like clowning. Uh, there's your dad. Say howdy boys. Howdy. Guys, Nick's one again tonight. Let's go. I gotta be honest. I'm not a basketball guy. Yeah. I used to love it back in the day, but I feel like we, we, we grew up in the best generation of basketball and I can't get past. We grew up. It was like, if you didn't hit, you were on the bench. Now it's like, you didn't hit 50%. You're on the all-star game. I, yeah, I was also never a little bit of basketball, but I was always a wrestler and I was also big into hockey when I was younger, but yeah, I was a big time Barkley fan before it was cool. I just liked his attitude. Yeah, yeah. That's terrible. Even the fact that he got bar fights because he refused to have a bodyguard and stuff like that. It's just funny. The commercials he had. Remember he had a shoe commercial and he's like, these are my shoes. They won't make you jump like me. They won't make you run like me. They won't let you rebound like me. They'll just give you the same damn shoes I have. This is so comfortable. Connor says, well, I'm still here. Who's a Chatty Cathy? How do you know my mother's name? Connor says, why does it seem other teams have always have solutions for CSP and get whoever they want, but we always have issues? What is CSP? Is it a cap? Is that what he meant to say? Because S is next to the A? Maybe. Maybe. I don't know. Maybe that's what he means. Listen, you don't always go crazy on the cap because eventually you got to figure it out. I mean, look at that. We've talked about it before. The Saints are having that problem now. The Saints are stuck in mediocrity because they're in cap hell. You can go get whoever you want whenever you have the quarterback because you're running for that title then at that point. But you're not running for the title with Daniel Jones. So that's where we're at. It is what it is. All right. Let's get into the news. It's time for the news. Delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete, delete. all right it came out today the giants have ranked seventh overall in home attendance at 634 459 they also finished third overall attendance at one uh one million two hundred and sixty two thousand three hundred and fifty two so yeah it's kind of embarrassing to be seventh overall when you have like the most seats available like that's we literally have the biggest stadium in the nfl I believe someone correct me if I'm wrong in the comments The Jets actually finished above us. That's probably because the tickets are way cheaper. It's also because in the beginning people bought tickets because they had hope for good things with Aaron Rodgers and they just didn't want to not go. I guess. I mean, we also won a playoff game last year. I know. I'm just saying. That's my thought process of where I'm thinking. I'm just saying that's too high, guys. Listen, I love going to games, so I'm not even going to do my own advice, but I'm going to tell you this. Don't go. Until the Giants change their ways and win. Stop going. You want to piss them off and get their attention. That's how you do it. You take that mini coke and get it thrown on the ground. Again, I'm not going to do it because I can't help myself. I'm a glutton for punishment. But I wish more people would not go. Empty stands would really go ahead and affect what they do going forward. Maybe John Mayer will stop meddling. On to actual football news, though. Daniel Jeremiah was asked about the Giants trading up with the Patriots to pick number three. Talked about before the Patriots apparently aren't necessarily that keen on taking one of these quarterbacks that high. They want to build up their team. They want to go that route from everything I'm hearing. He said it would cost him three second-round picks. Now, keep in mind, we have two this year. We'd have one next year we'd give up as well. So I had to look it up. This is where Rob knows I love to do the math. I did the math. I did the math. I went to drafttechs.com. They do their 2024 trade value chart. So the Patriots' number three pick is 2,220 points. Our number six pick is 1,600 points. So you're talking about 600 points you've got to make up. Our second round picks this year, 510 points and 430 points. That puts us at 2,540 points to get their pick valued at 2,200 points, plus giving up next year's second round pick. So, yeah, I'm not a big fan of overpaying. Yeah. That's what you'd be doing based on the chart. But I would also be more curious about giving up next year's first round pick instead to do it. I'd be more willing to give up next year's first than I would be to give up the two seconds this year and next year's second. Just so I can develop around whoever quarterback we take in that scenario. You have to have a lot of confidence in no that's your dude I'm just saying but here's my whole thing and this brought me to the point if you make this trade you better make sure that that's your dude because here's the thing I think about it you're picking number three guess what guys you're getting you're getting the leftovers You're getting the scrapes of the lasagna out of the pan, guys. Yeah. Like, Caleb Williams is going to go number one overall. I'm not buying the hype about Justin Fields. He's going to be a bear. Number two would put you at the Commanders, who I think will take Jaden Daniels personally. They'll look at Drake May and Jaden Daniels and decide between the two. Or they'll be happy as a pig and shit if Caleb Williams happens to be available. but I think that they'll take Jaden Daniels, and that leaves us with Drake May. And this is besides my issues about Drake May and the schedule and stuff like that, because, again, we haven't done our deep dive. We'll do that probably the next couple weeks here. But do I think that Drake May is the guy to build a team around? That's what the question is going to be. And Joe Shane better be sure if he makes that trade. Because I'm telling you right now, Joe Shane's butt's on the line if he makes that move and it doesn't work out. His job is done. He's over. He's done. And... The weird part about that is it also does reset the clock for him a little bit. You get a year or two to develop that quarterback. So it actually provides him with short-term job security, but long-term job on the line-ness, if that makes sense. Yeah, 100%, but I don't know. He will live or die with that quarterback. Listen, if Jane Daniels is there, I'm actually more high on that right now than I am on Drake May. But like I said, who knows? We may do our deep dives here soon. And I go, oh, my God. And I want to see the hype on Drake May. But right now, I don't see it. I just don't. Yeah. Yeah. We'll see. We'll see what goes on there. All right. We got some NFL news here real quick. Whoop. Oh, yes. The big news today, the punt god himself has come down from Olympus. Matt Aracia has been signed by the Kansas City Chiefs. He has never still played in an NFL game. The site being drafted two years ago while dealing with the charges and aftermath of the rape charges against a 17-year-old girl while he was in college. The Bills obviously quick released him once that lawsuit was brought up back in 22. All charges, though, have been dismissed. And on top of that, the local D.A. has said they do not plan on doing any charges on their end either. You know, I don't want to just dismiss the part of the charges, the 17 year old, all that kind of stuff there. But I will say this. Are there people that do horrible things to women that never get charged for it? 100%, guys. 100%. But am I okay with living in a world where someone gets investigated, they get deemed not worthy of any charges, and then we punish them for the rest of their life anyway? That I'm not okay with. No. The guy was investigated, was not found of any wrongdoing, He needs to have a chance to live his life. Now, if new evidence comes up, new accusations come up, that's a different scenario 100%, guys. I will never, ever suggest that somebody who does the things he was accused for should not be punished for it. 100% they should be. But if they're not found guilty of it, this is the system we have, guys. So are there cracks in the system? Might he be there? I'm going to listen. There are plenty of people that do horrible things. Again, there's plenty of people that do horrible things to women and get away with it. I'm not suggesting he's 100% innocent either. I haven't reviewed the case. I haven't looked at the information. I just hope the chiefs have. And if they feel confident that he's innocent and didn't do anything wrong... then go for it. Sign him again. The man has the right to earn a living. There's a middle ground here where you can go, okay, listen, we gave him a chance to get his shit together, so to speak. Gave him a chance to fight the Charters. He fought the Charters. He won. That means he deserves a chance to have a living and do what he does professionally. So, So, yeah, he'll be the punter for them next year, it looks like. Keep in mind, the Chiefs had all-pro punter Tommy Townsend last year. Obviously, that means he probably will not be returning to the Chiefs. So that means if you need a punter, guys, and you're in the NFL, the best one last year is going to be probably available. I was going to say, you're going to have a Super Bowl-winning punter. It makes sense because I'm sure Reza probably signed for the veteran minimum, whatever that is for a guy who's never played a game in the league. He's not really a veteran, but he's probably signed for the minimum. And now you've got a guy who's going to be the highest paid punter in the league probably. And you just save some money. This is what you've got to do. You're going to have a lot of people to pay when you win Super Bowls. That's what happens. By the way, the highest paid punter in the league, I had to look it up, is Michael Dixon of the Seahawks, $3.67 million. Not a bad salary to kick the ball around a couple times a game. Yeah. That's why I always say, if I have a child, they're going to learn to kick a football. Or throw a baseball at it. No. God, no. Baseball, I can't. Baseball just bores me. I can't. I can't do it. I can't do it. It's like watching hockey. Soccer. Spend five hours waiting for one or two points. Or a fight. It's hockey. I thought they don't fight anymore as much as they used to. They still fight. Actually, in MetLife Stadium, when the Rangers played the Islanders on Sunday, it was within the first three minutes there was a fight. I used to love watching the hockey fights on SportsCenter the next morning, but I never watched the games. I'm a terrible hockey fan these days. I used to go to a lot of games at Potential Center, but here we are. Next up, we got some rumors about Nick Chubb. Nick Chubb is rumored to be a cap casualty potentially for the Browns. He's got a cap hit currently of $15.8 million. And by releasing him, the Browns would free up $11.8 million. That's a pretty decent chunk of change there, obviously. Nick Chubb is rehabbing from that horrible knee injury. I was going to say this. If you Google the term knee injury Nick Chubb, you'll get the quick video of it. It's nasty. It looks really brutal. I feel bad for the man. Had at least two surgeries that I was able to see in a quick Google search there on that knee ACL and all that kind of fun stuff there. Others are saying he's not going anywhere. So it's a situation to kind of keep an eye on. But I'll say this. The business aspect of it says cut him. Because he's probably not going to come back and be the player he was. The heart side of me, the moral side says the guy hurt himself playing for your team. You should pay the man. That's a horrible thing to be like, I lost all this money because of it. And I really wish the Players Association would come back the next time they do these negotiations and come up with a middle ground term where they can say, you know what? We're going to part ways. We're going to part ways with the guy because of injuries and injury concerns. But we're still going to pay him and it won't affect the salary cap. Yes. Yes. And it's hard to figure that out and not have teams or players abuse it. It really is. But if this happens and this man loses out on that money, that's a freaking shame. That really is. And maybe you have to have an independent arbitrator look at it and go, okay, is this a legit use of that rule? Maybe. It might be worth it, too. When you're talking about losing close to $12 million off of this crazy freak accident. Well... I'd have to look at his overall thing. So he wouldn't lose that. What he would lose is just his salary this year. Keep in mind that what they're paying him is just the rest of his salary cap. I'd have to look at what his actual salary for the year is. Let me see here. Google search here. His base salary. Actually, it works out that way. It's $10.8 million. $10.8 million. so is what his what his base salary this year was 11.11.8 next year yeah so yeah that's I mean still that's a player option for a million dollars plus the three million dollar signing bonus so yeah that's that's it's a lot of money to give up all because you got hurt in the field that's that's not it's not fair don't get me wrong life's not fair But it shouldn't affect the cap, and they've got to figure out a way to make that fair for players. They really do. Because if that happens, that's a goddamn shame. And the next time you see a guy afraid to make a cut on the field, know that's why. Because he's making a business decision. Same as the Browns would, in this case, be making a business decision. We can't slam the player for making a business decision and then applaud the team for doing the same goddamn thing. It's a double standard. Yeah. It really is. All right. One last bit of news here. I'm kind of shoving this in because this is, to me, a little bit Giants-related here. We keep talking about Xavier McKinney's offseason and what to do with him, and I still think positional value, and I think somebody's going to overpay for him, and I don't want to be the one to do it. That being said, interesting news that safety Gino Stone is said to be potentially interested in moving on because he wants a starting role. And Ravens already have two guys there that are slated to start at the safety position that are signed long term. he got to start this year because of injuries though so he really broke out last year 68 tackles seven interceptions a pf grade of 71.9 while racking up 11 starts and but appearing in all 17 spotrack again we go back to them again they get a good source here for this kind of stuff they're listing his market value at 7.2 million dollars guys And this brings up my discussion we had a little bit yesterday with Xavier McKinney. If you can get him a replacement for that 80 cents of the dollar of abilities, but pay some half as much money, is it a sound business decision? Is a guy like Geno Stone someone to look at instead of signing long-term Xavier McKinney? Who's going to want more than twice that, guys? I guarantee you someone's going to pay him $16, $17 million. Yeah, it's a lot. It's a lot of freaking money, guys. And again, 68 tackles, 7 interceptions, 11 starts, so it wasn't all 17 games. I don't want to make it seem like he didn't play at all those six other games there. But again, this is a guy that's shown potential would be much cheaper than And probably wouldn't come with a lot of risk either. Because he wouldn't be signing him probably to a huge guaranteed money. Two full hands. I saw the notes. I saw the notes and I was like, you know, and I was looking at things going on in the NFL today. And I was like, you know what? This is a good thing to put up as NFL news. And for that reason, I think it affects the Giants as well. We'll take water at the same time. There's the silence. I know what it is. Like I said, I think that's a smart move, personally. We'll see how it works out, but I think that's a smart move. Alrighty, guys. We're going to call it a night here. We're going to be back on a course Monday, Monday, Monday, Monday. Next week, we're going to wrap. Next week, we're going to wrap up our State of the Team series here, assuming that nothing else is going on big news-wise with the Giants. We're going to be on Monday, Wednesday, and Thursday next week. So Monday, we'll be doing the linebackers. Wednesday, we'll be doing the secondary. We're going to kind of combine the secondary because those parts are kind of interchangeable. You have safeties that play as corners, corners that play as safeties. So we're just going to combine them. Secondary. And then, of course, Thursday, Thursday, we'll do the exciting special teams. Oh, yeah. I know everyone loves the special teams, guys. But listen, we will be discussing the special teams and we will probably be bashing Joe Shane for a certain draft pick throughout the entire time. Yeah. Yeah, somewhere around the 5th, something like that. Yes, yes. I don't know. My mind's going gray. I can't picture who it is now. Anyway, I appreciate you guys listening in as always, watching it as always there. If you haven't already, hit that like, hit that subscribe, hit the share button there. Send to friends. Tell a friend. Tell some friends. uh we'll be back next week therefore we as always we are live on youtube facebook twitter slash x twitch and of course instagram and rob's favorite my linkedin and of course as always we are available the next day usually five o'clock in the mornings when I set it to go ahead and release for the audio podcast versions they're available on apple spotify iheart radio amazon wherever you watch or listen now watch to audio podcast wherever you watch to audio podcast wherever you watch to audio podcast wherever you watch audio podcast he doesn't love watching audio audio podcast he doesn't love watching audio audio podcast he doesn't love watching audio great audio here oh my god great audio here oh my god great audio here oh my god the video quality is amazing on this the video quality is amazing on this the video quality is amazing on this audio podcast audio podcast audio podcast uh all right guys we'll see you guys uh all right guys we'll see you guys uh all right guys we'll see you guys again tomorrow sorry on monday again tomorrow sorry on monday again tomorrow sorry on monday monday monday monday monday monday monday monday monday monday monday monday monday monday monday monday monday monday monday monday monday monday monday monday monday monday monday monday monday monday monday monday monday monday monday monday monday monday monday monday monday monday monday monday monday monday monday No, God, no. The red is not for cinnamon. Literally, I have to sprinkle stuff around my yard to try to get rid of the fire ants. That's how bad it is. Getting attacked by fire ants is not fun. It's not fun, guys. There's a reason they call them fire ants. I've had it happen. No, I haven't had gonorrhea happen, though. Anyway, we'll see you guys Monday, next episode. Enjoy the weekend. As always, Giant fans... Go G-Men! Go G-Men! Thanks for listening to Two Giant Goofballs, a New York Giants podcast. We appreciate your support. Thanks so much.